Chocolate Coffee Porter

[Dave70]

Im going to try and make this simply because I like the sound of it. If thats not getting three for the price of one, I dont know what is.
My plan is to use a basic (AG) porter recipe and build from there.
Can someone give me an idea of the methods and amounts for say a 25L batch?
I was thinking about 1.5L of fresh brewed coffee (cooled) added to the secondary, how dose that sound?
As for the choc, is good cocoa powder or whole chocolate the way to go? Im guessing if you use whole choc it would be added to the end of the boil, say about 500gr?
Im aiming to get the choc / coffee flavours through without dominating the porter totaly.

Its going to be a bit of an experiment this one but hopefully I dont wind up with keg full of mocha frappuccino..

suggestions?

cheers.

 

[glaab]

I have a few recipes but haven't made any, some are choc-hazelnut/ vanilla recipes. 3 of them say add; 8oz ghirardelli Unsweetend Cocoa Powder
5-10 min before flameout, 1 says add 8oz coffee at 10 before flameout but don't say what sort. IIRC i read somewhere that freshly ground coffee is best. Have a ferret through here; http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f82/
Cheers

 

[mika]

A quick search would probably reveal a variety of previously tried and tested recipes.
I thought there was some issue with putting Chocolate in a beer, something about the oils, but I could have it backwards. I'd just stick to a nice choc malt, which you should probably have in a porter anyway.

 

[Renegade]

Dave70, I recently made a porter that's been ready to drink for a week, and it's has a slight chocolate and an interesting 'burnt coffee' taste. I added neither chocolate or coffee, so it may be that you just need to look at how you use grains.

This may not help, because it's a kit/extract/partial recipe I went with, but it goes a little something lilke this:

1 x Coopers Dark Ale
1 x Saunders Malt 1kg
1 x Coopers BE2
300g Pilsener Grain dry-roasted @ 200c for 1hr (this is the choc/coffee flavour I'm getting)
300g Pilsener Grain
200g Crystal Grain
5g POR 11%AA @ 60
10g Hersbrucker 3.5% @ 15

SG: 1.054
FG: 1.016

 

[Maxt]

Good quality coffe and plain bournville cocoa is fine. Mix them (say 2tbl spoons of cocoa, 1/2 cup of coffee) (seperately) with boiling water. Add to beer. mix (gently) leave for 1 min, taste. Repeat until desired taste.
It's very easy to overdoe both flavours (but especially coffee). You can always add more, you can't take it our once it's in there.....

 

[manticle]

Having experimented with putting coffee and cocoa in a couple of brews I can tell you that roast barley will give you a more integrated coffee flavour and Choc malt will give you a more integrated choc flavour.

That's not to say you shouldn't do it (ended up very tasty stouts) although I'd be inclined to go for a good quality cocoa rather than chocolate to avoid the sugar and oils.

When I did it I simply added a good dose of ground coffee and cocoa to the wort while it was hot. Coffee was about as much as I'd use for a four cup plunger, cocoa mass was similar.

 

[Renegade]

That's not to say you shouldn't do it although I'd be inclined to go for a good quality cocoa rather than chocolate to avoid the sugar and oils.

yea I read about that, someone threw in a good quality chocolate bar and the oils were a bit of an issue. But could this have been from the dairy component, or added oils ? Or the oils that are part of the cocoa... there are still natural vegetable oils present, right ?

Wonder if there's a recipe for Doc's "Secret Squirrel" that is featuring at the Mac Hotel these days ? That's quite chocolately (but also quite hazelnutty). It would be great to get some of those choc flavours into a homebrew.

But I concur with the coffee. My experience has shown me that roasted grain brings an unmistakable coffee flavour to the brew.

 

[manticle]

Chocolate is a mixture of cocoa, fat and sugar so I think it's mainly the fat component. The oil content of cocoa would be negligible in that regard (I certainly had no trouble with head retention and the like).

 

[Maschenbrau]

Chocolate is a mixture of cocoa, fat and sugar so I think it's mainly the fat component. The oil content of cocoa would be negligible in that regard (I certainly had no trouble with head retention and the likew).

I tried the chocolate thing with an oatmeal stout (Partial Grain) and even went to the extent of sourcing the highest percentage cocoa chocolate that I could find (Lindt 85% cocoa content - Dark Chocolate). Melted it in a double boiler (place a metal bowl over a pot of boiling water) and ladled a few scoops of boiling wort into the dish before adding it back into the boil for the last half hour or so. What I found however was that the oils from the cocoa did in fact kill my head retention.

 

[manticle]

Essentially it's the cocoa/cacao flavour you want anyway as the sugar will ferment and fat does little for the beer. A milk chocolate might give some sweetness from the lactose I guess but I'd go with cocoa for certain (or choc malt but trying things out is never a bad thing).

 

[wambesi]

For a smoother coffee result you can also try cold steeped coffee instead of hot brewed coffee.
It's the method I use to make my iced coffee's, the result is a nice smooth coffee flavour with no harsh bitterness you can get from hot brewed then cooled coffee.

It's also the way a lot of the bigger shops make their iced coffees, I believe the toddy system is one which can be used but I simply add about 1/3 cup of coarsely ground coffee (fresh of course) and add 1 and half cups of water then let steep in a jar overnight. Next morning pour it a few times through some muslin cloth to filter it, refrigerate and there you go.

Add this to the brew or add milk and enjoy!
Just need to play with the amounts to find what you enjoy, as mentioned previously it is easy to too much, so you just need to test it a few times - bugger!

 

[Renegade]

For a smoother coffee result you can also try cold steeped coffee instead of hot brewed coffee.
It's the method I use to make my iced coffee's, the result is a nice smooth coffee flavour with no harsh bitterness you can get from hot brewed then cooled coffee.

Could that be less caffiene extracted ? As we know with hops, different extraction methods yeild varied characteristis, and so the same 'general' rules apply to other home-chemistry methods, and other plant matter.

Would you say that you use the same amount of 'coffee' in a cold steep, or more, to get the same end-flavour results?

 

[wambesi]

Could that be less caffiene extracted ? As we know with hops, different extraction methods yeild varied characteristis, and so the same 'general' rules apply to other home-chemistry methods, and other plant matter.

Would you say that you use the same amount of 'coffee' in a cold steep, or more, to get the same end-flavour results?

For beer not sure as I have yet to actually do it - it's the next one I'm brewing.
But when I do my cold-steep coffee, I usually add about 30mL to a long glass, top with milk and maybe flavouring (sugar, syrup etc) and it's a real nice drop.

Bit of topic from the original question, but still relevant I guess regarding usage amounts.

As I have a nice setup for my coffee here, I'm looking at trying a couple of porter recipes, one will be ground coffee in the mash, another with some shots of espresso and another with cold-steeped. The results however will not be posted for a while as my consumption lately has not been a lot!

 

[Renegade]

For beer not sure as I have yet to actually do it - it's the next one I'm brewing.
But when I do my cold-steep coffee, I usually add about 30mL to a long glass, top with milk and maybe flavouring (sugar, syrup etc) and it's a real nice drop.

No, it was a general question on your findings with cold-steeped material vs hot-steeped material in iced coffee. If this is a regular treat for you, maybe you could try the same weight of ground bean in a hot-steep, let it cool down and see if the flavour is the same (obviously despite the bittering differential)

Bit of topic from the original question, but still relevant I guess regarding usage amounts.

Totally on-topic, I think. The extraction of plant magic comes in many forms.

I'm a tea-man, myself.

As I have a nice setup for my coffee here, I'm looking at trying a couple of porter recipes, one will be ground coffee in the mash, another with some shots of espresso and another with cold-steeped. The results however will not be posted for a while as my consumption lately has not been a lot!

You shou;d seriously try roasting some pale malt for a brew. It's coffee-flavour central, without coffee beans.

 

[newguy]

Read this thread for coffee ideas. As far as chocolate is concerned, take a page from the pastry handbook and add a vanilla bean to secondary. Vanilla + choc = :icon_drool2: