Chill Haze

[trussyd]

Hey everyone, First time poster, long time lurker.

I've been brewing AG for about 10 brews now and all of my beers, although clear at room temp are hazy when they come out of the fridge. From my reading on the subject I understand that this may be because of cold break proteins coming out of solution at colder temperatures and redissolving as the beer warms up.

My questions is how do I avoid it? I brew 3V, no chill.

 

[manticle]

You can use a product called polyclar to remove chill haze. It will also help if you leave as much break material behind in the cube as you can. Oviously drinking the beer warmer will help.

Other methods I've heard of but can't vouch for personally are using isinglass as a fining (have some on order so I can see for myself) and cold conditioning for longer.

 

[thesunsettree]

hi trussyd,

i can show you polyclar when you pick up the mill if you like. i also filter and can give you a rundown on that if your interested

matt

 

[Scruffy]

As my mate Manticle types, Polyclar works pretty much as directed (there's a couple of other powder and elixirs, but hear me out)...

I use Polyclar in most brews (the last Black Cider didn't need any). However the last brew (but two) despite well intentioned haze remedies resulted in a 1C polyclar'd gelatined beer passing through a 1 micron filter cloudy (i usually shine a torch into the keg and get exited seeing the bottom of the keg through the golden liquid)... bugger!
The next brew I went anal (scientifically speaking) and (the same recipe beer almost to the letter) resulted in a bright brew...

My solution, sort my water pH.

If your Polyclar doesn't work as expected, have a gander at your water pH, from mash, throughout... you might have had a lot of rain recently, which might have pulled your local reservoir water pH up...

It's prolly not going to get to this, but bear it in mind...

 

[DanRayner]

I find i get best results with polyclar when I use it when the haze is visible; ie when it is chilled and proteins are in suspension.

 

[manticle]

My understanding is that haze has to form first if polyclar (and I believe isinglass) can have any real effect on it.

 

[DanRayner]

My understanding is that haze has to form first if polyclar (and I believe isinglass) can have any real effect on it.

Exactly what I meant - guess I my post was a bit hazy (geddit? sorry)

So if the haze is present at 8degC then that's the best temp to use polyclar and if it's a low temp chill haze then that is when you use it. And, yep, it's the same with isinglass; these clarifiers have to bond with something out of solution (in suspension) for it to work.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

No, the haze does not have to form for polyclar to work.

Polyclar removes the tannin portion of the complex between tannins and protiens that forms cold break - it works at any temperature you care to name. It seems to work faster in cold beer... But that's for when you need a contact time in the minutes, if for instance you are a big brewery dosing the stuff inline to a filter.

If you give it more time than a minute or two... Like 10 or 15, or an hour... Then it still works perfectly well. As demonstrated by polyclar brewbrite, where the pvpp portion is admirabhly able to do it's job in a kettle full of boiling wort.

Isinglass is different - the haze must have been formed for it to work. The best temperature to use it is the coldest the beer will ever be... Not when the haze first forms, if you fine out haze that forms at 6 degrees, the throw some beers into an ice bucket for a BBQ... Then they will be colder than 6 & they might still end up hazy at the colder temp.

 

[DanRayner]

No, the haze does not have to form for polyclar to work.

Polyclar removes the tannin portion of the complex between tannins and protiens that forms cold break - it works at any temperature you care to name. It seems to work faster in cold beer... But that's for when you need a contact time in the minutes, if for instance you are a big brewery dosing the stuff inline to a filter.

If you give it more time than a minute or two... Like 10 or 15, or an hour... Then it still works perfectly well. As demonstrated by polyclar brewbrite, where the pvpp portion is admirabhly able to do it's job in a kettle full of boiling wort.

Huh. Interesting, I did not know that. Does it, then, only work on protein hazes? (are there any other kinds of hazes in beer?)

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Yes, it only works on chill haze, and helps stop chill haze from turning into permanent haze.

Chill haze is the most common haze (apart from yeast of course) but isn't the only one.

Good malt selection and good brewing practice should be your first line of defense against chill haze.... But i like to think I have those.. And I still get chill haze. So I use polyclar - and then I don't get chill haze anymore.

 

[felten]

I polyclar'd an IPA recently in the primary, a few days later I racked it into a secondary with some dry hops for a week. I bottled 2 longnecks left over from the primary and it came out crystal clear, but unfortunately the rest of the batch in the secondary has come out hazy.

I probably should have expected to pickup tannins from the dryhops, but didn't think about it at the time. Anyway just adding my observation.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Dry hops make beer hazy... They add a bunch of stuff to a beer that isn't particularly soluble. Nothing to do with chill haze really. But yeah, I guess some extra tannins might come out of the dry hops and undo the work of the Polyclar a bit too... Never thought about it that way. Thanks.

 

[milob40]

i was getting chill haze even after filtering, but when i crash chill to 2degrees then filter, i very rarely notice it occuring
don't know why or how but seems to work. i serve my beer at 2 degrees in an ice cold glass :icon_cheers:

 

[argon]

No, the haze does not have to form for polyclar to work.

Polyclar removes the tannin portion of the complex between tannins and protiens that forms cold break - it works at any temperature you care to name. It seems to work faster in cold beer... But that's for when you need a contact time in the minutes, if for instance you are a big brewery dosing the stuff inline to a filter.

well.. you learn something every day. I was of the common (seems common from the comments here at least) belief that you need cold beer with haze in it for the polyclar to be effective... Good to be enlightened.

I don't think it will necessarily change my process, cause i CC, polyclar then filter anyway. But good to know that it can be effective even without the CC step.

If your Polyclar doesn't work as expected, have a gander at your water pH, from mash, throughout... you might have had a lot of rain recently, which might have pulled your local reservoir water pH up...

+1 for this. I once had a batch that didn't clear, even after polyclar and cold filtering twice. I eventually identified that it was due to a starch haze caused by under-extraction in the mash due to incorrect ph range. I now adjust my mash to 5.2-5.4 and get better efficiency (jumped by 5-10%) and don't get any starch haze.