Cereal Mash using added enzyme?

[Danscraftbeer]

I made a lager with 24% Maize (milled on the day). Did the cereal mash (as below). My efficiency fell under estimations which never happens to me using all malted grains. Happy to say I always hit my estimations spot on and around 76+% total efficiency. So I can only conclude that I didnt extract sugars very well with the cereal mashed Maize.
Question: Rather than the 30min boil that you have to stir to avoid burning (PITA) what about adding enzyme and only keeping at 60 - 70c for some time. Or boil it then bring down to 60- 70c and add the enzyme and let sit for ~ 30min? before combining to the main mash?.............?


This cereal mash confuses me as to just a 5min Sacc rest for the enzymes then to boil which stops the enzymes.

How to cereal mash

To do a cereal mash, combine your "cereal" — whether, it's corn or rice, an unmalted grain or other starchy food — with about 10% six-row barley malt or 15% two-row barley malt. The malt should be crushed and — if your cereal is another grain — crush that too. Slice, dice or otherwise reduce the size of other starchy foods to small enough pieces so that they will hydrate quickly. You can go higher on the barley percentage if you want, up to around 30% if you wish.

Add water and begin heating the cereal mash. Shoot for a thin gruel-like consistency. Some foods will take on water as they cook, so don't be afraid to add water as you go if the cereal mash gets too gooey.

Bring the cereal mash to the high end of the starch conversion range, around 158 °F (70 °C) and hold for 5 minutes. The barley malt in the mix will convert any stray starches at this point, but the bulk of the starches will be converted in the main mash. (Even with starchy foods with a low gelation range, there is not enough enzymatic power in the cereal mash to fully convert it.)

After the five-minute rest, bring the cereal mash to a boil. You will need to stir nearly constantly as it heats and boils to prevent scorching. Boil the mash for 30 minutes. When the cereal mash is done, stir it into your main mash. At this point, the starches in the cereal mash will be exposed to the amylase enzymes in the main mash and degraded. At this point, you simply finish brewing as you normally would.

 

[MHB]

The starch is bound up on tight little bundles called granules. The point of the cereal cooking process is to gelatinise the starch, making it accessible to the mash enzymes in the main mash. the 15% addition of malt to the cereal provides some enzyme degradation of starch, but more importantly Glucanase and to some extent Protease free up the starch granules which is at higher temperatures unraveled so the Amylase in the main mash can get at it. Otherwise it can stay scrunched up and not get converted.

Brewing Maze (corn) is shelled and de-germed, most of the oil in corn is found in the germ, it really contains a lot more lipid than we would want to add to most beers (definitely a lager), it is also Micronized so the starch is available without doing a cereal mash - ok I is more expensive but will give better results.

The following is a table of gelatinisation temperatures for common brewing ingredients, where a range is given, don't assume it will happen at the low end, where it says a product must be boiled, its right (from the Practical Brewer MBAA - IIRC)
Mark

 

[Bribie G]

I've done a few cereal mashes, and after talking to MHB waaay back in the Islington days I'd been adopting the suggested method of slow heating with some base grain then ramp up to boiling to make the starch more available for the main mash.

However using supermarket polenta and rice etc, when cooked to a thin porridge and given a boil before adding to the main mash, would there be much in the way of "unravelled" starch granules, and therefore an advantage in going to the bother of a cereal mash, or should we just add the cooked polenta/rice porridge to the main mash?

Ed: last use of polenta was with a historic 1955 Boddingtons Bitter which called for maize. The amount of maize was fairly small so I just did the tip-the-porridge-in method and did an iodine test at the end of mash, no starch reported in that particular case.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Brewing Maze (corn) is shelled and de-germed, most of the oil in corn is found in the germ, it really contains a lot more lipid than we would want to add to most beers (definitely a lager),
View attachment 108739

Lipids hmmm, no good. Just did a frantic run to Keg King for some, things, and found they had flaked Maize yeehaa! I think that's the best choice yeah? Unless I'm wrong the flaked maize can go straight in the mash with no cereal mash needed.

Anyone want 24kg Whole Grain Maize free to pick up? It seemed a good idea at the time...

 

[wynnum1]

What about corn flakes.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Yep, they work. No cereal mash needed. I'm drinking a Corona attempt lager at the moment is gooood.
9.7% Kellogs Corn Flakes 9% Dextrose, Pilsner malt the rest.

 

[Bribie G]

Corn flakes contain a lot of salt.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

This Lager tastes like Corona hyped up in flavor. The corn is a complimentary flavor.
The other Lager I made with the cereal mashed Maize is green Lager at the moment in a full on aroma way but is clean to taste and has that akin to so many ordinary commercial megaswill beers character. Like a C Draught rip off or something.

 

[MHB]

Snip
Like a C Draught rip off or something.

Is that what you are trying to achieve?
Mark

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Is that what you are trying to achieve?
Mark

Actually yeah by request. "A beer like eg, eg", Commercial megaswills to test my skills but you know Home Brew still turns out with so much more character and flavor.

My next brew the Tooths Pale Ale has flaked Maize too.

 

[wynnum1]

Corn flakes contain a lot of salt.

Coles brand has 590 mg per 100 grams so a kilo would have 6 grams of salt that would seem small amount but you could put in water and strain and a lot of the salt would be removed.

 

[MHB]

Actually yeah by request. "A beer like eg, eg", Commercial megaswills to test my skills but you know Home Brew still turns out with so much more character and flavor.
My next brew the Tooths Pale Ale has flaked Maize too.

In that case as neither uses any maize or rice... just use sugar.
Mark

 

[Danscraftbeer]

This one uses both.
https://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/1916_Tooths_Pale_Ale.pdf

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Coles brand has 590 mg per 100 grams so a kilo would have 6 grams of salt that would seem small amount but you could put in water and strain and a lot of the salt would be removed.

Interesting. I used 760g corn flakes for a 40l brew so at that rate its nothing to worry about its just like an addition of salt I sometimes add to the water anyhow.