Carlton Draught / Melbourne Bitter Extract Brewing

[juzz1981]

Hi Guys,

I am just getting into extract brewing and have put down my first brew using saflager w34/70. I used the below recipe to try and get a beer similar to a Carlton Draught or Melbourne Bitter but just tasted a small sample from the fermenter after a 3 days and seems to have an overpowering flavour from the POR hops.

This is the recipe that i used.

2.4kg LME
400g Dex
100g Corn Syrup
40g POR Hops A/A 5.6% @ 60min
15g POR Hops A/A 5.6% @ 15min
Saflager W34/70

Fermenting in a fridge @ 9-10c

Have i added too much flavour/aroma hops? or should i have used a different hop?

Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Justin

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

Hi Guys,

I am just getting into extract brewing and have put down my first brew using saflager w34/70. I used the below recipe to try and get a beer similar to a Carlton Draught or Melbourne Bitter but just tasted a small sample from the fermenter after a 3 days and seems to have an overpowering flavour from the POR hops.

This is the recipe that i used.

2.4kg LME
400g Dex
100g Corn Syrup
40g POR Hops A/A 5.6% @ 60min
15g POR Hops A/A 5.6% @ 15min
Saflager W34/70

Fermenting in a fridge @ 9-10c

Have i added too much flavour/aroma hops? or should i have used a different hop?

Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Justin

What was your final volume?

 

[manticle]

a small sample from the fermenter after a 3 days

This is most likely the issue. Fermentation after 3 days won't give you the same profile as finished, conditioned beer.

PoR is often used only as a bittering hop (I don't think Melb or Carlton have any flavour hopping at all) so maybe consider dropping that out next time if you don't like how it ends up but definitely wait and see when she's finished. Don't worry about how it tastes now except to train your palate about fermentation.

 

[juzz1981]

Final Volume was 23L

Thanks for the reply guys.

Will let it run its time and see what its like and if it ends up too flavoursome from the hops i'll do as Manticle said and remove the late hop addition and see how it goes.

 

[staggalee]

POR hops only 5.6% AA ?
Are you sure?

stagga.

 

[Bribie G]

30g only of POR or 20g of Superpride as a bittering addition works well. A bit of flavour and aroma comes through as well. Carlton / Melbourne don't add hops to the kettle but squirt in some hop extract on the way to the packing line. TB (who makes the stuff) said on a recent thread that they don't just use isohop extract, they 'split' the hop extract into various 'fractions' like they do to petroleum at a refinery and some fractions contribute to flavour and aroma. I find a quite pleasant floral hint in Melbourne Bitter - had one the other night when I was out. So it's difficult to get it right using hop flowers or pellets, but I find that a smallish hop addition for a reasonable boil time gets you pretty close.

Edit: POR = 9.8% or 10.00% AA for the new season flowers from Sponsor.

 

[staggalee]

I`ve never seen or heard of POR @ 5.6%.
That`s roughly half of the usual AA for it, maybe even less.

stagga.

 

[juzz1981]

When i purchased the hops the A/A % was not actually listed, but i would of assumed it would be in the 8% mark. But as shown on the packet its 5.6%.

I have uploaded a picture to check out.

thanks

 

[juzz1981]

If Possible can someone recommend what they would use to make a similar tasting beer to CD or MB using Extracts?
Just to make sure im on the right track

Thanks heaps!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You are already on the right track

Your recipe was already mostly fine - I'd leave the corn syrup out of it though.

POR is the right hop to use, I'd stick with just an addition @ 60mins, enough flavour/aroma will come through to give you the very small amount of those things you get in a CUB beer.

34/70 is the right yeast to use as well, start it a bit cold, say 12 or 13 degrees and let it rise up to 18 degrees and finish out there - at those temps you will get a quite "CUB" profile out of 34/70

Recipe is the easy part - Almost all CUB beers are just 100% pale malt and a sugar adjunct - so its a matter of how bitter you want it, how hoppy you want it and maybe tweaking the proportion of sugar to get it as dry as you want it to be. You should nail it in a few brews.

TB

 

[juzz1981]

Thanks alot for your help thirsty boy, i will drop the finishing hop addition next time. As my ferment is sitting at about 9-10c should i leave it for about a week fermenting then slowly increase the temp to 18c to finish off?

Cheers

Justin

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Nah - just leave this one finish out at 9-10, maybe give it a diacetyl rest if you think it needs it. See how it goes, if you get what you are after why change? Maybe try the rising ferment on another brew someday. The way to do it is pitch cool and let it rise naturally at its own pace, then hold it at 18-19 till its done. If you get too much yeast character, then just lower the maximum temperature next time.

Basically thats a strategy that bigger breweries use to get their fermentation over and done with more quickly - I think it makes for a less pleasant fermentation profile than a beer done entirely at the lower temperature, but if you are looking to emulate a CUB beer... fermenting the way they do is a good starting point.

It will never be "quite" right unless you use some isohop for bittering and manage to get hold of CUB's yeast strain - but you'll get pretty damn close with POR and 34/70

 

[staggalee]

When i purchased the hops the A/A % was not actually listed, but i would of assumed it would be in the 8% mark. But as shown on the packet its 5.6%.

I have uploaded a picture to check out.

thanks

Can`t argue with that.
Seeing is believing

stagga.

 

[juzz1981]

OK,

I will let this one ferment out at the current temp then once finished will leave for a day at 18-20c for a d-rest as i did pitch the yeast at about 16c which may be a little high for the 34/70.

I did a google search for Isohops and Grain and Grape has it and is in a 7.5ml bottle.

Do you know how much of this i would use for a 23L batch and at what time i would add it?
I would assume that i would not have to use any POR if using the Isohop Extract?


Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get all the info i need for when i make my next batch

Cheers

 

[juzz1981]

In regards to the 5.6% hops, i will definitely be sourcing a different supplier.

I did see a listing on ebay for POR hops @ 11% AA

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Home-Brew-Hops-Prid...=item2a0611b169

so i think i might give these guys a shot.. cheaper also

 

[Nick JD]

It will never be "quite" right unless you use some isohop for bittering and manage to get hold of CUB's yeast strain - but you'll get pretty damn close with POR and 34/70

I've found bringing it up to ale temps slightly before FG with 34/70 gives it hints of that CUB classic mercaptan characteristic in the aroma. I think it's something to do with the yeat interacting with the PoR, because the same thing doesn't happen with my Castlemaine clones.

 

[Nick JD]

I did a google search for Isohops and Grain and Grape has it and is in a 7.5ml bottle.

I'm all for accurate clones and all - but this is going to far! Last year's hops = nice beer. Isohops are Satan's Spunk.

 

[juzz1981]

Hahaha

Alright,

Might just stick with the POR hops.. I am a Noob to the whole brewing thing so thanks everyone for all the help as ive been searching around on the net reading heaps before i made my first extract brew but probably would have been better off to start here!

Would be great if i knew someone in my area that brewed anything apart from K&K.


Thanks again

 

[manticle]

Hahaha

Alright,

Might just stick with the POR hops.. I am a Noob to the whole brewing thing so thanks everyone for all the help as ive been searching around on the net reading heaps before i made my first extract brew but probably would have been better off to start here!

Would be great if i knew someone in my area that brewed anything apart from K&K.


Thanks again

What area is that?

I second Nick JD's suggestion of using pellets (or plugs or flowers if you can get a hold of them)

 

[juzz1981]

Im in Colac, Victoria