Carbonation Issues

[Joeyjojo]

Hey guys.

Just started with this homebrew business. I'm a fan already.
First brew I made is a "James Squire Pale Ale" premium brewing kit.
It came with two "MSB pale ale" malt extract cans and the standard premium brewing yeast you find underneath the lid.
Being that it was my first brew, I did not take an OG (I had no idea what this was at the time)

During fermentation, the airlock did not bubble at all. I later discovered that the fermenter lid wasn't on tight enough.
Before bottling I took a gravity of 1.020. Obviously I sampled the result and it tasted alright.
The kit was thrown in the fermenter on 1/8/10. I bottled it on 11/8/10. I used dextrose to prime the PET bottles and measured it using one of those double sided scoops you can get from Brewcraft. (I used the larger side)
I sat the bottles in their box and put the box on a heat pad, then put the fermenter with my second attempt at a brew (Hoegaarden) sitting on top of the boxes. The fermenter stayed at about 22 - 24 degrees but I cannot account for how warm the bottles were. I made sure to rotate the bottles around to give all the bottles equal amounts of heat.

About two or three days ago I took the boxes off the heater pad as I was told they only needed to be kept warm for about two days. Yesterday I refrigerated and sampled some of the pale ale only to find that it had no head and very little carbonation. I was a little disappointed but they have only been in the bottle for two weeks. I am told they will still improve over the coming months. The flavour is fine, it smells like a homebrew.

Besides the obvious mistakes of not taking an OG, or not tightening the fermenter lid tight enough, what have I done wrong? Why are the beers not carbonated correctly?
The bottles were brand new, I rinsed them with hot water prior to bottling. The fermenter was sterilized with sodium metabisulphite and then rinsed plenty with hot water. The yeast was chucked in dry when the wort was at 20 degrees.

Is it because I left them on the heater pad? Or perhaps the fermenter lid being slightly loose played a part?

What do you guys do with your bottles to get them to carbonate properly? I want to get it right for my Hoegaarden. It's looking, smelling and tasting pretty good so far. I would hate to get it wrong again!

Unrelated question: Has anyone tried to make a clone of Monteith's Original Ale? I have a friend who loves it and I wouldn't mind having a go at making it!

Any help would be great!

Cheers,

Dan

 

[the_yobbo]

Welcome to the forums Dan.

Alright, first in on this one so I'll put my 2c in.

Nothing jumps out as direct obvious reasons why your bottles haven't carbed up. Neither the lack of OG reading or leaking fermenter seal would have caused the issue.

Points of concern, have you sanitised your bottles, bottling stick and fermenter tap prior to bottling. You mentioned you washed the bottles with hot water which wont sanitise the bottles unless it is boiling at the time. Best to use a non-rinse sanitiser.

It's possible that your bottles are getting too hot. I'd have put them on top of the fermenter no the other way round.

If the beer tastes good then it is unlikely to be infected. Perhaps give each bottle another gentle swirl (you should have done this when bottling to disolve the sugar) to aggitate the yeast in each bottle and give it more time.

 

[zarth]

Hi I am fairly new as well but 1020 seems fairly high for FG if you primed as you say I would have thought it would have resulted in over carbination. But others here will try to confirm for you im sure, best of luck...

 

[Ross]

About two or three days ago I took the boxes off the heater pad as I was told they only needed to be kept warm for about two days. Yesterday I refrigerated and sampled some of the pale ale only to find that it had no head and very little carbonation. I was a little disappointed but they have only been in the bottle for two weeks. I am told they will still improve over the coming months. The flavour is fine, it smells like a homebrew.

Any help would be great!

Cheers,

Dan

Dan,

They will need a week or 2 to fully carb, 3 days is not enough. Warm them back up & leave for a couple of weeks.

Cheers Ross

 

[bum]

About two or three days ago I took the boxes off the heater pad as I was told they only needed to be kept warm for about two days.

Hey, Mr Shabbadoo Jr.

When you say it was "only kept warm for about two days" what would you say the temp was for the rest of the time? It seems like you bottled only 2 weeks ago (which for many isn't long at this time of year), the sampled beers had a day of fridge time and only two days of "warmth" - it looks to me like they just need more time and maybe not to be so cold (sitting directly on a heatpad may not be entirely necessary however, room temp should be fine).

 

[bum]

Dan,

They will need a week or 2 to fully carb, 3 days is not enough. Warm them back up & leave for a couple of weeks.

Cheers Ross

I bottled it on 11/8/10

Just saying...

 

[felten]

If you heated the bottles too much (above 40-50c?), its possible you could have pasteurized the beer, it might be possible to reach those temps inside a box on a heat pad but who knows. Or it could just be they haven't been bottled long enough to carbonate, after 2 weeks they should be done though especially if they've been on a heater pad.

The fermenter lid not being on tight enough isn't an issue, it is just there to keep dust and small kittens from falling into your beer.

I suggest you have a read of how to brew if you haven't already, its the somewhat of a bible to brewing (and a free one at that), and invest in a better sanitiser than sod met like starsan or iodophor.

edit: for clarification, how long did you leave the bottles on the heatpad. I'm reading it as 2 weeks.

 

[Ross]

Apologies, I missread & thought they had only been bottled for 3 days before refridgerating.

Would be surprised if the heat mat overheated the bottles, but it's certainly a possibillity, especially considering the beers flat.

Cheers Ross

 

[kelbygreen]

well 2 days on heat pad then 2 weeks in cool weather may not be enough I have bottles that are 3 and a half weeks in the bottle and they are just carbed but I still think they got a little to go yet. I find 4 weeks in winter they need to carb summer 2-3 weeks but longer you can leave them the better

 

[Joeyjojo]

Thanks for the speedy replies guys.

The bottles were on the heater pad for about 10 - 12 days and I rotated them around every day or two so the heat wasn't concentrated on just 4 or 5 bottles.

My house gets very cold at the moment, insulation is pretty well non-existent. What alternatives are there to resting the bottles on the heater pad? I have a bar fridge which can get warm on top from time to time but am open to suggestion obviously.

I don't know that the heater pad would have gotten the temp up to greater than 40 degrees. I might have to invest in a thermometer to whack in there with the bottles perhaps...

 

[kelbygreen]

put some in a esky with a few softdrink bottles filled with hot water out of the tap and change when they get cool

 

[warra48]

I once stored a Best Bitter on top of my off peak hot water tank in my laundry.
It's a gentle warmth, and seemed to do the trick after they hadn't carbed after 4 weeks in my usual storage.
Sometimes you just have to be patient at this time of the year. I'm having the same issue with a Munich Dunkel bottled 6 weeks ago, but I'm sure they'll get there eventually. Never yet had a brew which didn't ultimately carb up properly.

 

[felten]

I have my last 2 batches in the fermenting fridge set to 20c with a fridgemate+lightbulb+pc fan, about the only way to get them to carb up in this weather!

 

[DangerousDave]

not an expert by any means but by the the fact you said you bottled at 1.020 which is very high for a normal brew so it should all things considered be a overcarbed brew im gonna say that your temps are falling to low for the yeast to work at.

my house is as yours very little to no insulation and the temperature fluctuates wildly down to god knows how cold at night and i too found that after a couple of weeks sitting in a box in my living room, the bottles had little to no carbonation as they weren't heating up enough from the previous night.

i suggest 1 of 2 things that i did

1. if your like me and spend most of your time in 1 room with a tv and playstation going you will find that your (plus partner or (partners B) ) body heat plus the heat of electronic equipment will keep that room at a higher temp than the others you could try moving the bottles/box of bottles in there. 2 problems may arise from this 1 is your partner may object to a random box of beer in the bedroom (i mean comon im trying to make beer here) and 2 in your situation if you have bottled in glass with an FG of 1.020 i want those things NOWHERE near me or even in the house little own where i sleep (search bottle bombs if you dont know what im talking about) if your in PET you should be fine.

2. put your heat pad on floor, cover with towel and put all your bottles in a box on the towel and tape the top shut turn on pad before sleep and off before work (we dont want fires even then i strongly suggest plugging into a overload protector) for a couple of weeks this got mine nice and carbed

(3. get a keg setup and force carb your **** :lol: )

hope this helps you mate. welcome to bewing and the forum

 

[Joeyjojo]

I just checked the top of my bar fridge. Feels warm but not as warm as the heater pad. I will put the boxes with my bottles in there for awhile. Just covered it with a blanket for good measure too.

Thanks heaps for your help guys.

If anyone knows a recipe for Monteith's original ale I would be interested in having a try at it soon!

Dan

 

[Lecterfan]

Just a quick comment on the gravity of 1020...while it is higher than expected/preferred for the style, I am not entirely surprised that a brew consisting of two cans of malt shovel brewery using the kit yeast has finished this high (although it might fill you up a bit if you intend on having a session). I did an MSB kit brew years ago that only did 1046 - 1018.

In regards to the two weeks of carbonation...as everyone else has said, I would give it a bit of extra time in the cooler months, even if the brews have been warmed etc. I find that two weeks is a good indicator of taste but not necassarily of how well carbed the brew will be at say 4 or 6 weeks.

It's all up hill from here (or downhill depending on how you view the homebrew obsession).

 

[tomtoro]

Mate just wondering how tight you managed to get the lids on with the PET bottles. It takes a fair amount of pressure to dissolve CO2 in a warm liquid, and you'd be surprised how hard you might need to screw on the bottle caps to hold that sort of pressure. Could it be possible that you had a bit of a slow leak going on? Just a thought.