Can You Drop A Recipe's Og Using Same Grain Bill.

[scrumpy]

Im wondering if it is at all advisable to simply scale a recipe down to reach a lower OG, I'm aware some brewers will make 2 beers from a single mash ie: porter then mild or maybe a ESB then ordanary bitter.

I made a great American brown ale a few months ago and would like to make the beer again but with a little lower alc and ibu's

the original og was 1.061, the new version im aiming at 1.050

the grain bill is as follows

73% pale malt
8.4% light crystal (J/W)
8.4% cara pils (Wey)
6.1% Wheat (Wey)
3.4% Choc (J/W)

Ideas??

 

[felten]

cut down the base malt

 

[scrumpy]

cut down the base malt

will not the spec malts then become too dominant???

 

[felten]

I wouldn't think so, I'm sure others have more experience with it than me though.

edit: you could also increase the amount of water. When I'm copying the CYBI recipes I use a longer brew length than they do, but get more efficiency so the OG's work out the same.

 

[kelbygreen]

whats the reason behind this??? couldnt you mash it higher (hope thats the right way around) and it will have a higher FG? unless you somehow do something to drop efficiency I cant see how same recipe done same way would drop the OG but I could see you being able to raise the FG or just change the grain bill to suit.

I could be way out as only done 1 partial but have read a bit on AG and thats what I can grasp anyway. So dont take my answer as a true one lol

 

[kenlock]

In Beersmith you simply use the 'gravity' button/function. So with your original recipe, and grain bill, you change the gravity from 1.061 to 1.050. Same % just different amounts.

Edit: You'll need to alter the IBU's. Just change until you reach the same 'bitterness ratio'

 

[Kieren]

A recent brew strong podcast recommends for scaling back recipes to cut back on the base malts. Mash in a little higher to maintain same FG.

Or

Brew same beer exactly and then add cooled, boiled distilled water POST fermentation to suit desired acl % and get more beer!

 

[hoohaaman]

Scale it down to your required OG with some brew software.

Many brewers only adjust base malts when scaling,I like to keep all percentages the same.I believe a recipe was formulated with a certain taste in mind,increasing or decreasing base malt without compensating other grains will alter this.Within reason.

 

[ginsoakedstranger]

In Beersmith you simply use the 'gravity' button/function. So with your original recipe, and grain bill, you change the gravity from 1.061 to 1.050. Same % just different amounts.

Edit: You'll need to alter the IBU's. Just change until you reach the same 'bitterness ratio'

I agree, most brewing software can do this accurately. I use Beer Alchemy for Mac and it's just a matter of moving some sliders to adjust ABV%, IBU, etc.

 

[MattC]

My advice would be to increase the overall batch size and keep all the malt % the same. Over the last few weeks I have tried some diff techniques and ended up with a higher OG than I had planned. To combat this i simply diluted the batch (increased the batch size and reduced the overall strength of the beer). NOTE, when adjusting your volume, you will also inadvertenly adjust your IBU's, and you may have to increase the amount of hops!! Do you use brewing software??

If you do not want a higher volume as much as the same volume but weaker beer, i would play with your recipe and reduce all ingredients so as to reduce the OG but keep all the grain % the same as original. If you only reduce the base malt but not the others as well, you will increase the %'s of the spec matls and therefore their overall contribution to the beers flavour profile.

Cheers

 

[scrumpy]

sorry folks, maybe a little confusion here, I do use brew software and scaling the recipe down and keeping the % the same is what I have done, I was more curious to see if others follow this practice.

I wanted to know what method would be best to make a lower og beer while keeping the same flavour profile as the original.

looks like my questions have been answered.

I'll go ahead and simply tweak it in beersmith ( keep percentages the same and lower grav and IBUs)

sorry and thanx!!

 

[hoohaaman]

ask a brewer how to change a flat tyre,get death star blueprints

 

[Kai]

I made a great American brown ale a few months ago and would like to make the beer again but with a little lower alc and ibu's

the original og was 1.061, the new version im aiming at 1.050

the grain bill is as follows

73% pale malt
8.4% light crystal (J/W)
8.4% cara pils (Wey)
6.1% Wheat (Wey)
3.4% Choc (J/W)

Ideas??

My thoughts...

I'll start off with the best homebrew answer ever; it depends. Depends on what the beer tasted like in the first place, and where you want it to be next. If you were happy with your brown ale at an OG of 1.061, then just cutting the base malt to bring you down to 1.050 will probably work well as it's a relatively small drop. But, if you're dropping bitterness as well then I would consider cutting back the crystal, carapils and maybe the choc in order to achieve the same balance of specialty malt versus hopping.

I'd suggest splitting the difference. Reduce the percentages of specialties a little, but make the main cuts to the base malt.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I'm also in the "it depends" category.

Do you want a new beer that is a "smaller" version of the other beer, or do you just want a lower alcohol level in something that is fundamentally the same beer?

If you want close to the same beer, but with less alcohol - then i'd look at primarily reducing the base malt and leaving the specialites alone.. Or even upping them a teeny tiny bit to compensate for the loss of flavour you will get by reducing the base malt.

If you want to reduce the beer in all aspects, then reduce it proportionally across the board.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I don't think it's possible to reduce the alcohol content and IBU's while keeping the same flavour profile.
You want to make the same beer again but make it a different beer.
I would start from the ground up, taking what you liked about your American Brown as a building point for your next recipe. Perhaps aim for the same EBC's but with a different BU:GU that is more to your liking while using the same ingredients.

2c

 

[QldKev]

I'm also in the "it depends" category.

Do you want a new beer that is a "smaller" version of the other beer, or do you just want a lower alcohol level in something that is fundamentally the same beer?

If you want close to the same beer, but with less alcohol - then i'd look at primarily reducing the base malt and leaving the specialites alone.. Or even upping them a teeny tiny bit to compensate for the loss of flavour you will get by reducing the base malt.

If you want to reduce the beer in all aspects, then reduce it proportionally across the board.

I've been playing with a mid strength brews for drinking during the week, so I'll throw a third one in the mix

If you reduce the grains proportionally across the board, I agree with Thirsty that you will get a reduced beer from it. Not what I was after.

I have also tried reducing the base malt and leaving the spec malts. I found some of the spec malts became too pronounced; with the worst offenders, things like cafra and choc malts. I made a TTL this way and it was pretty poor, way off balance. I think it will heavily depend on what you are brewing.

Last brew I tried scaling back the malts on a mixed ratio.
Base malt was scaled back 15%. Crystal 5%, Choc 15%. Wheat 10%
The beer came out fairly nice, but still not 100% true. The issue here is suddenly you are rooting around with no set rules. So you need to work it out for each beer you make.


Also don't forget the adjust the malt/biterness ratio; which isn't as simple as that...


QldKev