Bronce sparkler real ale machine

[Seeker]

That's why I moved over here.

Camra ran me out of town!

 

[billygoat]

Hi mate

If as you say you are looking for the simplest and cheapest option, that would be gravity dispense straight from the cask (also arguably the best). You do not need a beer engine or anything else to serve real ale.

Some malt driven ales do benefit from being served via a beer engine fitted with a sparkler but the main reason for using an engine in UK pubs is simply to pump the beer from the cellar up to the bar.

It is certainly not required to force beer through a sparkler at pressure to serve perfect ale. Real ale is never pumped through an engine at UK pubs or beer fests when the casks are at the bar and easily accessible to the barman. I would be happy and interested if anyone can prove me wrong and find pictures of real ale being served other than gravity when the cask is in plain view.

What are you using as casks for your real ale? I find cubes easiest to use at home, fit easily in a temp controlled fridge away from fruit flies.

Cheers Sean

Sean,
Took this picture at the GBBF 2 weeks ago. Even though all casks were in view all ales were served via beer engines. Some of the bars had over 40 beer engines in a row,and all connected to the casks behind. Only the ciders were being served direct from the cask.
In pubs its a different story. If the cask is in view its poured via gravity.
At the moment I am in Cornwall enjoying some lovely ales.
It seems though that the UK breweries have gone crazy on US hops.
Every second ale seems to contain them. Very different to when I was here 4 yeears ago.

 

[Bribie G]

My God, not a bearded old fart among the attending public and ... thankfully I'm sitting down as I type this... a woman

 

[S.E]

Sean,
Took this picture at the GBBF 2 weeks ago. Even though all casks were in view all ales were served via beer engines. Some of the bars had over 40 beer engines in a row,and all connected to the casks behind. Only the ciders were being served direct from the cask.
In pubs its a different story. If the cask is in view its poured via gravity.
At the moment I am in Cornwall enjoying some lovely ales.
It seems though that the UK breweries have gone crazy on US hops.
Every second ale seems to contain them. Very different to when I was here 4 yeears ago.

Well there ya go, first time I’ve seen that done. My eye sight isn’t what it used to be but the first two engines have a short swan neck and don’t appear to have sparklers fitted so the ale will taste the same as it would if it was poured from the tap in the cask.

Having said that the engine will give a little more head even without a sparkler but not enough to do it for that reason. Looks good though doesn’t it!

Cheers Sean

 

[Bribie G]

During the winter I often leave a keg of a UK Special Bitter just on the garage floor slowly working away on a UK Wyeast such as 1768, with a bronco tap attached. It doesn't take too much gas to serve most of the keg under its own steam.

 

[S.E]

During the winter I often leave a keg of a UK Special Bitter just on the garage floor slowly working away on a UK Wyeast such as 1768, with a bronco tap attached. It doesn't take too much gas to serve most of the keg under its own steam.

Don’t you find your drawing a lot of yeast up the dip tube or have you shortened it?

 

[billygoat]

Don’t you find your drawing a lot of yeast up the dip tube or have you shortened it?

About 25 years ago I visited a friend in London who used one of those King Keg fermenters. The beer was fermented and served from the same vessel. Had a tap at the bottom and a CO2 bulb in the top lid. I think it may have had some sort of dip tube as well.
Are you familiar with those Sean?

 

[S.E]

About 25 years ago I visited a friend in London who used one of those King Keg fermenters. The beer was fermented and served from the same vessel. Had a tap at the bottom and a CO2 bulb in the top lid. I think it may have had some sort of dip tube as well.
Are you familiar with those Sean?

I am familiar with the plastic king Keg pressure barrel if that’s what you’re thinking about but not a KK fermenter/cask. About 25 years ago I did have and maybe still have somewhere a King Keg pressure barrel. It wasn’t designed or intended to ferment and dispense from but your friend could have done so in his.

The tap on the King keg was near the top of the barrel though not the bottom. It didn’t have a dip tube but a float attached to a tube that drew ale from just below the surface so you could start drinking earlier than the usual casks and pressure barrels with the taps at the bottom as the float chased the yeast as it settled. It could be topped up with co2 from a cylinder similar to a soda stream cylinder.

Cheers Sean

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The king keg pressure barrel is used as a secondary, and then pour from bottom tap it also comes with a fitting so CO2 can be injected as the beer is poured off.

 

[S.E]

The king keg pressure barrel is used as a secondary, and then pour from bottom tap it also comes with a fitting so CO2 can be injected as the beer is poured off.

Bottom tap or top tap? My one had the tap at the top of the barrel.

 

[welly2]

Electric pump. Mostly used until the 1980s to serve bright tank beers but I've seen it used for real ales such as John Smiths casks.

I'd be careful calling John Smiths a real ale, you'll get all the real ale beards in a flap.

 

[Blind Dog]

John Smiths Original comes in cans, keg and cask with the latter being a decent drop if you can find it (keg and can are fizzy crap). Extra Smooth, however, is the fermented love juice of Beelzebub and an abomination.

 

[billygoat]

I am familiar with the plastic king Keg pressure barrel if that’s what you’re thinking about but not a KK fermenter/cask. About 25 years ago I did have and maybe still have somewhere a King Keg pressure barrel. It wasn’t designed or intended to ferment and dispense from but your friend could have done so in his.

The tap on the King keg was near the top of the barrel though not the bottom. It didn’t have a dip tube but a float attached to a tube that drew ale from just below the surface so you could start drinking earlier than the usual casks and pressure barrels with the taps at the bottom as the float chased the yeast as it settled. It could be topped up with co2 from a cylinder similar to a soda stream cylinder.

Cheers Sean

It was around 25 years ago so my memory of the king Keg barrel is obviously up the shit. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Bottom tap or top tap? My one had the tap at the top of the barrel.

Bottom tap, I used their (king keg) instruction PDF when I was setting up my cubes as casks, the only thing I haven't got on my cubes is an automatic pressure release valve, which I don't really need.

 

[S.E]

Bottom tap, I used their (king keg) instruction PDF when I was setting up my cubes as casks, the only thing I haven't got on my cubes is an automatic pressure release valve, which I don't really need.

You must have been holding the instructions upside down. Or maybe King Keg also made a bottom tap pressure barrel did your instructions show the float assembly?

The difference between the King Keg barrel with the top tap and other barrels with bottom taps was it needed the float and had to be kept under pressure with co2. As the tap was near the top it couldn’t be gravity dispensed.

It was (and a Google search shows it still is) a plastic keg so isn’t suitable for using as a real ale cask.

This https://youtu.be/PjNohwznUkU shows the King Keg and similar Rotokeg.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

READ INSTRUCTIONS FULLY BEFORE STARTING

The following items should be included with your barrel: drum tap with washer and locking nut, large screw cap with ‘O’ ring and pressure valve.

1. Fitting the Tap
Insert the threaded portion of the tap through the hole at the bottom of the barrel from the outside, ensuring the rubber sealing washer is on the outside. Place the backing nut on the inside of the barrel and tighten as tight as possible onto the thread of the tap. You may tighten the tap by holding the backing nut and twisting the tap until a firm seal is achieved. However, it is most important not to over-tighten as this will cause the rubber to spread and a seal will not be obtained.

2. Fitting the valve
This unique valve allows the release of excess pressure that builds up during secondary fermentation, and the facility for the injection of additional gas. To fit the valve, you will find a purpose made hole in the cap. Push the valve through the cap from the outside with the black sealing washer between the cap and the collar on the valve. Fasten the nut from the inside of the cap. Position the large black ‘O’ ring in the cap. Your cap should now look like the drawing.

3. Cleaning and Testing your Barrel
The barrel should be thoroughly cleaned and tested before placing any beer inside. Use Ritchie Cleaner / Steriliser. Place sufficient for 25 litres into your barrel, fill with water and leave to stand for 24 hours. Rinse well afterwards with clean water. This will remove any plastic smells. The barrel should then be sterilised in the normal way before using. DO NOT ever use any solution containing SODIUM METABISULPHITE for sterilising as this will corrode your valve.

At this stage it is as well to test the barrel for any leaks. Half fill the barrel with water, fit the cap and inject some CO² gas (see note on extra pressure). Do not add more than 3 one second bursts of gas. Check the barrel for any leakage, especially round the cap and tap area. A water based liquid with some washing up liquid in is ideal as this can then be squirted around these points. Bubbles will then appear if air is leaking.

4. Adding the Beer
When primary fermentation is completed, transfer your beer from your fermenting bucket into the sterilised barrel. Leave as much sediment in the bucket as possible (a ‘U’ tube will help). Dissolve 110 to 165 gms (4 to 6 oz) of sugar in 250mls of boiling water and add to the 40 pints of beer (if it is less than 40 pints, reduce the sugar accordingly). Add finings and/or hop extract if required. Replace the top tightly and leave in a warm place for 2 to 3 days to allow secondary fermentation to take place. Transfer the barrel to a cold (not below freezing) place, and leave until beer is clear. Do not move the barrel again as this will disturb the sediment.







5. Extra Pressure
If it is not possible to remove all the beer (due to insufficient secondary fermentation), you may wish to add CO² gas. There are many different cylinders on the market for this purpose and your local shop will be able to advise you. However, it is IMPERATIVE to remember that your pressure release valve has been designed to release excess pressure that builds up during the build up of secondary fermentation. NO responsibility can be taken for the misuse or malfunction of these cylinders. Make sure that no more than a one second burst of gas is used.
To ensure maximum pressure retention, it is advisable to change the rubbers on the valves every six months. The unique feature of the valve on the barrel is that it allows the sight of the pressure release rubber.

6. Float System
N.B. This only applies to barrels with TOP fitting taps.
You will have realised that with the tap at the top, the only way to dispense beer is by using the float system. This is done by placing the end of the tube with the tap connector into the tap. The other end of the tube should be pushed an inch through the hole of the square plastic float. This can be done before or after filling the keg with beer. Before replacing the top, make sure the float is resting on the beer with open tube end in the beer. When dispensing beer if you find air coming out of the tap, unscrew the cap and check that the float tube is still in the beer. If, for any reason, you remove the cap, always cover the beer with a blanket of gas. This can be done by adding approximately two one second bursts of gas (from a CO² cylinder), or one 8 gm bulb. This will prevent any possible contamination of the brew.

Had to go back and check Sean, you had me doubting myself, but it is the bottom tap version

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[crowmanz]

I've seen a post for plastic barrels on ebay, that appear pressure rated, $129 or so with free shipping from the UK. They have a soda bulb attachment in the top. Not many pictures on the listing though. Bottom mounted tap.

 

[S.E]

Had to go back and check Sean, you had me doubting myself, but it is the bottom tap version

Looks like King Keg do make a bottom tap barrel then. My top tap barrel was a pain as the float would often pop apart as I poured a pint and the tube would either sink to the bottom or float above the beer and draw co2. Hopefully they have improved the design now.

The problem with mine was the float assembly was a little plastic cup that push fitted into another heavier plastic bit that kept the tube just below the surface of the beer. As I poured beer the pressure would drop in the barrel but not in the sealed float cup and the pressure in the cup made it pop apart so I gave up using the King Keg and went back to bottom tap barrels. The top tap was a good idea as the barrel could be placed anywhere and didn’t need to be placed on table or shelf to get a glass under the tap.

When I came to Australia I only brought bottom tap barrels with me but they needed new seals. I went to the LHBS and was told they weren’t available here so we turned to cubes for casks as I had brought my beer engine along to a club BB grain split and it was decided that a real ale fest was in order as we had an engine and pallet of MO and EKG.

We just needed casks so after initially experimenting with fitting a ball valve to a cube as I didn’t think the plastic tap would take the pressure I thought what the hell and gave it a go with a plastic tap. It dripped under pressure but popping it apart and applying a little Vaseline sorted that out.

Since then I’ve been back to the UK and brought back a Firkin and two Pins but they don’t fit in my fridge so I still use 15L cubes and due to their size find them handier and easier than purpose made pressure barrels and casks.

Cheers Sean

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I think that the heavy duty cubes which are available here would work fine about $10,I have a John Guest QD on the cap of my cubes so I can release excess pressure manually and also inject CO2 when needed.
I fitted the 8 mm tube through an 8 mm hole in the cap and used a plastic rawl plug pushed into the end of the 8 mm tube on the inside forcing the tube to seal on the cap you can just see the yellow tip of the rawl plug in the photo.
If needed a small plastic pressure release valve could be fitted onto the cap.