Brewing Myths Caused By Chinese Whispers

[Darren]

Carbonation caps work.

Batz

Now that is a myth

 

[haysie]

I thought the same when I read Pete's post this morning. Why would you invite people to post their opinions on a topic and then laugh at their "stupid" posts with your mentor who "KNOWS" brewing?

Pete, people who know you personally may have taken this differently, but for those of us who don't you come across as an elitist, a troll, and kind of a twat. Good luck with your brewing.

:lol:

so true

what forums are about?, having an opinion within reason, seeking help and advice, helping others and offering advice,
too many times some folk critisize for the sake of their own ego and forgetting the person whom may well be genuine in his her request for advice.
so many times i see 1st posters welcomed, applauded for the ventures into brewing, only the next day too see somebody ask a question and may only have a few a/g`s on his signature, and he gets torched..... never too return. Melodrama? not at all IMO, i think moderators should get tougher.
Now torch me :lol:

 

[kook]

I can also see that several of the above answers are stupid if read in context to the original question as it is a question which begs proof.

As for Palmer and waiting until Chapter 15, I just looked up Chapter 1. People say I write long posts. Find one post I have written as long as this and gives less practical, easy to read advice. And, that is just page 1 of Palmer!

Pat, I don't think you're looking at the same book as me. The introduction is just that, an introduction to the book and the author. Chapter 1 starts here in the book (3rd edition):

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter1.html

It may not read as easy on the internet, but in the book it flows well and has pictures to guide you along the way.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply to this thread if you feel that your fellow brewers input is "stupid" and good for a laugh.

Personaly I have never read Palmers book so I cant comment on the content but I know its not a recommended text for brewing studies.

It's not intended that way Neville. But books like Technology Brewing and Malting and De Clerck's Textbook certainly aren't intended for new-intermediate homebrewers either.

 

[mikelinz]

Yup, so can drinking tap water, it is just very, very, very unlikley.

Myth: No-chill will kill you.

This is the biggest myth of all! The truth is that it CAN (not will) kill you, it's just such a small chance that it hasn't happened yet

edit: haha I should practice what I preach.. no more no chill comments I promise

 

[PistolPatch]

Looks like a few people missed my apology above.

There were a few replies that missed the point early in the thread. There were only a couple, not lots like I stated and I called them stupid. That was dumb. I am not calling brewers here stupid.

Why I was laughing on the phone that night was because we were chatting about stupid things that are handed on with authority. I gave some examples of things that I handed on in a similiar manner in my earlier brewing days. So I was laughing at myself as well. It was funny but wrote that post very badly.

My Fents popcorn post did not mean to imply that I was sitting here laughing at people's replies. I was trying to say in a funny way that I didn't have time to write.

Anyway, I stuffed up. Thanks to those of you who have seen that and then graciously continued to offer valuable stuff here. As for others who can't accept my apology, I know several of you guys enjoy these opportunities so please feel free to capitilise on my errors and have yourselves some fun eh?

The rest of you who can see the one or two valid questions I was trying to ask, I'll keep looking forward to your answers.

:icon_cheers:
Pat

 

[staggalee]

Looks like a few people missed my apology above.

There were a few replies that missed the point early in the thread. There were only a couple, not lots like I stated and I called them stupid. That was dumb. I am not calling brewers here stupid.

Why I was laughing on the phone that night was because we were chatting about stupid things that are handed on with authority. I gave some examples of things that I handed on in a similiar manner in my earlier brewing days. So I was laughing at myself as well. It was funny but wrote that post very badly.

My Fents popcorn post did not mean to imply that I was sitting here laughing at people's replies. I was trying to say in a funny way that I didn't have time to write.

Anyway, I stuffed up. Thanks to those of you who have seen that and then graciously continued to offer valuable stuff here. As for others who can't accept my apology, I know several of you guys enjoy these opportunities so please feel free to capitilise on my errors and have yourselves some fun eh?

The rest of you who can see the one or two valid questions I was trying to ask, I'll keep looking forward to your answers.

:icon_cheers:
Pat

With the upcoming Olympics,we should be trying to enter a new event-Backpedalling.
There could be a Gold on the horizon there.

stagga.

 

[Simon W]

With the upcoming Olympics,we should be trying to enter a new event-Backpedalling.
There could be a Gold on the horizon there.

stagga.

ROFL, now thats gold!

 

[lucas]

Whoops! Knew I didn't do enough morning edits today

I thought everyone here knew to ignore anything I write after 9pm! I apologise about the "stupid." comment which was over the top and purely due to me reading from a very narrow angle - probably slightly tilted as well

I think the mods need to implement a system where posts by pat made between 9pm and 7am are not publicly viewable until he's made his edit... then again, perhaps he could start thinking before he posted and then wouldnt need to edit every post

 

[PistolPatch]

OK I think that all of what I call, 'the pack,' has followed their leader now. TroughLolly is not part of the pack by the way and and was totally correct to pull me up on my very poorly written posts. TroughLolly is always correct in his posts. He is a great bloke though I have only talked to him on the phone - never met him unfortunately.

For those of you who know me and know that I am far from an elitist troll, you may find the following interesting. I would certainly advise you not to post back here though. (Seriously guys, this thread is shot. Just leave it for a while and then post a new topic or append to an existing thread.)

For the genuine AHBrs here is some interesting stuff...

On the brewing myths subject, tonight I found out by chatting on the phone to some brewers...

a) Ale Brewers in Perth or Anywhere in Aust Should Really Concentrate on pH: Perth water has a pH of around 8 I think. This brewer has multiple medals for ales and uses the same city water as I do. He has NEVER adjusted for pH. The best thing about this brewer is that he is not interested in the fact that he is a medal winner.

We always chat from the point of view that we know nothing. Wasn't going to say his name but, bugger it, RandyRob is the man. Sorry Randy, if I have set the pack on you too!

Mind you, when we start to crack lagers and pilseners then we wil be studying pH heavily!

B) Temperature Control Using A Kit Ale Yeast - Just thought I would try and slip this one in here as it was one of my original questions. MHB did us proud by actually posting the specs. Did anyone see that? A very On Topic and helpful post. My question for Mark now is, "Do you think fermenting that yeast at say 24-25 would assist in eating up any kit twang?" Love to know the answer.

c) Haze - A lot of people have been having problems with haze lately. One brewer who is a lot better than I in keeping brewing notes has absolutely no explanation for it. He always has brewed sensitive beers but lately they all have haze. The only explanation I have found is that recently, malsters have found it very hard to find good malt. They pay higher prices but the malted barley they get is far worse than they were able to get a year ago. I only heard this a few days ago but I think it is very important info. I'd really like to name and credit this person but whilst, 'the pack,' and their leader have me in their sights, this is not possible.

So, these are a few things I find interesting just today. Due to the pack though I can't really see me taking the risk of starting a new thread here on any of the above subjects. No matter the logic of what I post, recent history shows that the pack will attack as soon as given permission.

Take care,
Pat

P.S. Thank God I got home today to a nice PM (see below). The pack have taken this thread way outside it's purpose so let me post what I came home to tonight.

Here is the PM I got and I can't tell you how much it was appreciated by me. Can't give him any credit either for fear that he will get noted. Anyway, how nice a PM is the following when the leader and his pack are onto you such as in this thread?

Patch, Wanted to drop you a line to tell you it's a shame you got hung out to dry in your "Chinese Whispers" post. Brilliant concept just a shame it became a slanging session where people could take you out of context and sensationalise on it. A real shame that this is happening on such a great forum, may be it's just a really grass roots example of social evolution. Once upon a time men went to the pub drank beer and discussed controversial issuesand on the odd occasion it ended up in a scrap now we drink beer get on forums and make nasty comments (maybe I am starting to take this forum to seriously).

Any way mate I wanted to find out about your BIAB'ing. I now have a few BIAB's under my belt and a few AG's with my Clayton's 3 vessel system. From the beer I have tasted (my own and other brewers), I can not fault BIAB. From what I have read you and many other brewers are producing high quality beer from this highly unconventional process. Has any body ever brewed a competition winning BIAB? The process is out there, the results speak for themselves. What are the major problems with BIAB?

I have just finished a 14 hour night shift and am well into a session on an Aussie IPA (40 ibu pure POR super.gif), so consider this one of those after 9pm messages. I would hate to be taken out of context.


Give it Large, XXXXX


P.S. So there you go. Anyway, the first thing I did when I got home tonight was spent a lot of time writing to and thanking XXXX. He makes sense and it meant a hell of a lot to me. If he wants to post my reply, I would advise him to wait. (Of course, it's a very long one!) Anyway XXXX I'll leave it up to you old son but feel free to use it!

"The pack." has pretty unmercifully attacked and misrepresented me in this thread (with some reason - I admitted and explained my error) and in other threads with no reason at all where I actually did no wrong at all apart from challenging a brewing given or a given retailer.

Whilst I and my mates here on AHB have no chance against stupidity from a pack, I/we really appreciate it when someone like XXXX above writes. So please send us a PM!

As for, 'the pack', before you jump in and attack my post above, why not try and answer at least one of the simple questions I posed above? Why not try the one in B) above? No one else has really cracked that. Not one of you pack has done a thing so far to contribute.

Spot,
Pat

PS To the sincere guys on AHB, I apologise for my recent posts. I think I used to post really well a lot of the time here on AHB. Now I think it is a rare event. I now spend most of my time wondering whether to post or being defensive against the pack - a whole dozen people! I'm not sure how this all came about (I actually do know) but I wish things were like the old days where I could just post a new idea up and just be slightly fearful - lol!

Anyone know which sub-forum one can explain. 'the pack,' and name them? LOL! It's all way beyond me

 

[Stuster]

a. I agree that it's not a vital first step and that you can certainly brew good (great?) beer without mucking about with water (brewing without water altogether is a different matter ). It depends on what you're brewing and what water you have though. Personally, I've been mucking about with it and 'think' it's made a difference. But if it's not broken...

b. Sorry, Pat, but I have no idea about using kit yeasts. I just haven't used them since my first few batches so it'd just be a guess. I think that's probably true for a lot of people here and probably why you're getting no answers to your questions about them.

c. It might be due to the malts as you say. From what Wes has been posting, the protein contents are pretty high for many malts ATM. That's most likely the cause of the haze. I'm going to give step mashes a run partly to try to cure that (not that it's that important to me) but mainly just to do something different and so Tangent will stop looking down at me for being a simple single infusion duffer. :lol:

 

[braufrau]

myth 23c) Kit twang is inevitable ... if you buy fresh extact there is no twang and if you don't believe me read Jamil' book.

Its such a shame that this thread has been hijacked by name callers. It could have been interesting.
I agree with haysie .. the moderators should get tougher. Calling people "twats" for asking a question is not on.

Why don't we try to remember three things ...
* at the end of every post is a human being with feelings.
* every post is open to interpretation; without the benefit of facial expresions its easy to misinterpret what people mean. You should give people the benefit of the doubt.
* and remember what thumper's father said . "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".

 

[PistolPatch]

Just got up to do my morning edits :blink: I reckon I'm just going to leave everything as it is (though my post above probably need a very heavy edit) and turn my computer off for a few days. Stuster and braufrau, thanks a heap for your posts above. You two always post really well. What's your secret? I desperately need some lessons! Thanks and a big :icon_cheers: to you.

 

[hughman666]

one myth that got me for a while was that you needed to have the ability to hold low temps (10-15c range) for lagers, meaning that if you had a 100 can cooler and lived in perth, brissy etc, your temp range was 18c-22c and as a result you were stuck with ales!

this has to be one of the widest spread chinese whispers in the brewing community and its funny because a number of people who have told me this have never actually attempted a higher temp lager.

there are a couple of ways around this, mainly to do with yeast selection.

first, if you're after a more traditional lager, you can use wyeast 2112 which does a great job at 18-20c.

second, you can go for a pseudo lager style. wyeast 2656 is a kolsch yeast, but with the right grain bill and hop choice you can "fool" people into thinking it's actually a lager (well, a few people have picked it for a lager and were quite surprised when i told them it was actually an ale).

so that's my contribution to the topic!

 

[Screwtop]

Just got up to do my morning edits :blink: I reckon I'm just going to leave everything as it is (though my post above probably need a very heavy edit) and turn my computer off for a few days. Stuster and braufrau, thanks a heap for your posts above. You two always post really well. What's your secret? I desperately need some lessons! Thanks and a big :icon_cheers: to you.

Here goes again. I posted you a big serve Pat, but it was obviously pulled by a mod. Screamingly funny as it was in regard to my PM to you, might have appeared a bit abusive to those not in the know, you would have gotten a giggle from it, pity. :lol:

 

[neonmeate]

myth 2: pilsener based beers will stink of DMS if no-chilled
No smell of vegies in this beer!

braufrau which pilsener malt did you use? i abandoned nochilling cause i got particularly bad DMS from weyermann bohemian pilsener when i nochilled it, and also DMS from normal weyermann pilsener. havent had it in the year since (in which most of my brews have been weyermann pils based), so it is not a myth for me.

i would like to see some proper testing done on DMS levels of identical worts chilled and no-chilled.

 

[Darren]

myth 23c) Kit twang is inevitable ... if you buy fresh extact there is no twang and if you don't believe me read Jamil' book.

Braufrau,

In my mind fresh extract is not a "kit".
Kit twang is associated with buying a can off the shelf and following the instructions to the letter. Fermented warm or cool the beer will always be average. Takes a hell lot of dark malt or hops to cover the twang but then the beer is usually out of balance.

cheers

Darren

 

[MHB]

IMO - "Kit Twang" exists in the mind of elitist AG's and nowhere else.

There you go Pat - that might take some of the heat off you.

Kit twang is a funny one - even trained judges can't find it in blind tastings if they arent told it's there - or if they can it is so trivial that they routinely hand out first places to kit beers in comps.
I believe you can make world class beer from kits and extract; although there are some provisos and limitations that have to be considered.

The main point being; you can't make great beer from cheap/stale/old/damaged extract any more than you could from cheap/stale/old/damaged malt and hops.

There is a characteristic flavour that stale extract develops (I think it's largely from Milliard reactions that happen in the highly concentrated extract much faster than they would in a more dilute wort).
This flavour is distinctive and unpleasant - it isnt present in fresh extract, or fresh kits.
There is also a distinctive musky taint from slack/stale malt that is also unpleasant and like wise - isnt present in fresh malt.

It is as reasonable to say that AG beer tastes Musky because crap malt makes crap beer - as it is to say that the twang is characteristic of kits, because some people use stale extract.

So to answer your question Pat; twang comes from the extract being stale nothing you can do about it - except avoid retailers that sell inferior product.

Good brewers using good ingredients make good beer.
Poor brewing practices, and bad ingredients makes for bad beer.

MHB

I guess I better take out some flame insurance.
Yes an AG brewer can make better beer, because they have a richer more varied pallet to work with.
Having total control doesn't mean its automatic that you will make better beer - you still have to be able to brew.

M

 

[Darren]

MHB,

I am up for the challenge: I bet I can tell a kit and kilo 9/10 times. I dont know any beer judges who can't so I am unsure where you got your info. Sounds like the sorta thing my HB shop owner told me many years ago. I only made two kits, ten years ago, and I knew if I could not improve the beer it was going to be a waste of time making it because I couldn't drink it.

About two years ago I was the lucky recipient of a "top-of-the-line can". I prepared the beer as per instructions and fermented it a temp controlled fridge. I fully expected to enjoy the beer but again I couldn't drink it and dumped the keg.

just my myth busting thoughts.

cheers

Darren

 

[Guest Lurker]

No argument there (with MHB, obviously, I always argue with Darren), although I do think AG has an advantage for the palest beers, I could never hit what I was after using the lightest extracts I could find.

 

[braufrau]

IMO - "Kit Twang" exists in the mind of elitist AG's and nowhere else.

I used to think that too. I've never detected twang in my beers but a bloke I work with insists
on making beer with a supermarket kit and 1kg of sugar. Nice and strong!

Anywy, I thought the nasty off flavour in his beer was due to all the sugar but now I read in
"brewing classic styles" that twang is licorice, molasses or ball point pen flavour and that's the
taste. All three rolled into one!

So I think it occurs ... its just not inevitable.

Well ... it seems I'm just repeating what MHB said anyway.