Brewing Myths Caused By Chinese Whispers

[braufrau]

braufrau which pilsener malt did you use? i abandoned nochilling cause i got particularly bad DMS from weyermann bohemian pilsener when i nochilled it,

Joe White. I boiled for 90mins to drive off DMS. I wonder if that makes a difference?

I hope it wasn't because I forgot and only boiled my latest brew for 60mins. Fingers crossed.

 

[Maxt]

It's a very very rare kit beer brought to meetings that I don't find to have the twang. My uncle brews kits but his don't. Not sure why, but probably that he uses very in date cans.

As for PP's edits. A wise friend of mine once told me to write posts/emails that are contentious or cranky, then leave them for a day. If they seem right the next day send them, but most times they were 'heat of the moment' and need to be toned down or just deleted. Very good advice...(which I will try to take myself more often) :lol:

 

[neonmeate]

Joe White. I boiled for 90mins to drive off DMS. I wonder if that makes a difference?

I hope it wasn't because I forgot and only boiled my latest brew for 60mins. Fingers crossed.

JW pilsener is low in precursor for DMS anyway so the consensus seems to be around here that you can safely nochill with it. Same goes for ale malts as a base. However I have found that with the Euro pilsener malts (which I prefer to use) that DMS is an issue if it sits around after boiling. others on this forum have differed on this point, so i'd like to see some testing done - you could do it for us, you're a biochemist aren't you?

 

[wessmith]

JW pilsener is low in precursor for DMS anyway so the consensus seems to be around here that you can safely nochill with it. Same goes for ale malts as a base. However I have found that with the Euro pilsener malts (which I prefer to use) that DMS is an issue if it sits around after boiling. others on this forum have differed on this point, so i'd like to see some testing done - you could do it for us, you're a biochemist aren't you?

DMS is going to flash off in the first 20 mins of the (vigorous) boil - but we need to careful of how we define a "boil". Those first 20 to 30 mins should be a "jumping" boil with the wort looking to try and get out of the kettle. If you can only get to a strong simmer, then it will take much longer.

Wes

 

[sah]

DMS is going to flash off in the first 20 mins of the (vigorous) boil - but we need to careful of how we define a "boil". Those first 20 to 30 mins should be a "jumping" boil with the wort looking to try and get out of the kettle. If you can only get to a strong simmer, then it will take much longer.

Wes

Hi Wes,

On your definition, what percentage boil off are you looking at over 1 hour?

Can you provide any references for DMS gone in 20 mins?

thanks,
Scott

 

[wessmith]

Hi Wes,

On your definition, what percentage boil off are you looking at over 1 hour?

Can you provide any references for DMS gone in 20 mins?

thanks,
Scott

Yep, minimum 5% but 8-10% more preferable for boil off. As for DMS, try the resulting beer on initial serve - unless youve got some mates at Lidcome/Abbortsford/Yatala with access to the lab.

As another perspective on this DMS thing, most maltsters avoid it like the plague, however some do provide a special malt with the DMS precursors accentuated. A couple come top mind - Bairds and Durst

Wes

 

[Gerard_M]

Quite a few thousand years ago the Ancient Egyptians built the Pyramids. They kept thousands of worker fed on a fermented beverage made from grain, pretty much an early version of what we call beer. They managed to achieve all of this without the use of the a temp controller, internet or Pro-Mash!

Cheers
Gerard

 

[sah]

DMS is going to flash off in the first 20 mins of the (vigorous) boil - but we need to careful of how we define a "boil". Those first 20 to 30 mins should be a "jumping" boil with the wort looking to try and get out of the kettle. If you can only get to a strong simmer, then it will take much longer.

[quote post='286858' date='Feb 16 2008, 06:57 PM']Yep, minimum 5% but 8-10% more preferable for boil off. As for DMS, try the resulting beer on initial serve - unless youve got some mates at Lidcome/Abbortsford/Yatala with access to the lab.

As another perspective on this DMS thing, most maltsters avoid it like the plague, however some do provide a special malt with the DMS precursors accentuated. A couple come top mind - Bairds and Durst[/quote]

Hi Wes, the reason I asked is because I've experimented with my boil vigor over a couple of years. As a base I've always used either JW pilsner, ale or bairds maris otter. I've always smelt DMS during the boil, but I've never tasted it (nor has it been picked up by others) in the finished beer. My kettle is 50L, my initial boil volume is generally between 38 and 41L. I started with about 15% boil off, which is vigorous, jumping and looking to get out of the kettle, and over time I've decreased to just over 5% which can hardly be described as vigorous in my system, in fact it's just breaking the surface.

regards,
Scott

 

[Darren]

Quite a few thousand years ago the Ancient Egyptians built the Pyramids. They kept thousands of worker fed on a fermented beverage made from grain, pretty much an early version of what we call beer. They managed to achieve all of this without the use of the a temp controller, internet or Pro-Mash!

Cheers
Gerard

After the Egyptians "naturally fermented beer" came the the microscope, scientific principle the industrial revolution, electricity and the internet. Then beer got better (except for those who had no taste buds )

cheers

darren

 

[Darren]

SAH,

I always start the boil with lid off (first 20 or so minutes). Never had DMS myself. I have tasted it in one brewers beers in particular. In fact I can identify his beer in a flight of 20 or more beers. Ruins my palette for any other beers I have for the next hour or so. (Its not anyone who posts here)

I wonder if it the result of a "house bug" in this case?

cheers

Darren

 

[dr K]

What a strange series of posts!
And, what a Strange Name to give this thread.
As much as I would love to know who "the pack" are (and if there are six of them) I may have to live in wonder.
My understanding of the Term, "Chinese Whispers" is that a person will repeat what they thought they heard, and what they thought they heard may not be exactly what was spoken, a domino effect takes place and the final information, having being passed through a number of whisperers is quite different from the original.
In this situation I have no concrete record of what I heard and none either of what I passed on.
In a forum such as this though there is a record, if Joe writes that black is black I may think he said black is white, but a quick flick back will show that I mis read and indeed he did say black is black....UNLESS ...Joe goes back and changes it, the ability to edit your posts is there and I guess a lot of people do so for clarity but to have a serial editor/changer/cutter/slasher be concerned about disinformation via CW is surely the cauldron calling the bone china...you guessed it.
Of course there is a lot of bad advice given with the best intentions out there, forums such as this are a vehicle for such, but forums such as this are a filter for such as well, and might I add, a far better filter than vehicle for bad advice.
Back to initial post and the two great myths upon which homebrewing is based.
Ale Yeast: Brewing at 22 or 26 0r 30C is not going to hurt your yeast but it is going to hurt your beer, if you cannot tell the difference (in your set-up) between Ale brewed at 14C (ambient) and 24C then brew at 24C and enjoy the fruits of your labour. If you can tell the difference then you are well on way, if indeed you are not already there, to making good beer.
Palmer: Possibly the greatest resource known to home brewers worldwide..from your first extract beer on he explains everything carefully, succinctly and accurately from the homebrewers point, further he takes it beyond the basics and introduces some (optional) advanced notions. I have no idea whatsoever if Palmer has even heard of BIAB , let alone taken an interest in BIAB, I guess it would not take a lot find out, would it....

K

 

[Darren]

What a strange series of posts!
And, what a Strange Name to give this thread.
As much as I would love to know who "the pack" are (and if there are six of them) I may have to live in wonder.
K

I suspect there are seven now

cheers

darren

 

[matti]

What a strange series of posts!

:lol:

That's special drK.

 

[TidalPete]

As much as I would love to know who "the pack" are (and if there are six of them) I may have to live in wonder.

Dr K,

I would not know how many there are in the so-called "Pack" but I do know that my relevant post agreeing that there is a "Clique" out there has been pulled.
How sad is that? and I further expect this post to be pulled as well.
Democracy hey! :lol: Eat it up while you can.
For all off you who have missed out on my earlier post read my Profile for a good/sad laugh. What a shame that all brewers cannot get on.

TP :beer:

 

[staggalee]

you can always pm the details of the pack- I`d like to know that myself, and that is a genuine post, not a stir.

stagga.

 

[TidalPete]

you can always pm the details of the pack- I`d like to know that myself, and that is a genuine post, not a stir.

stagga.

No stirs here stagga. What price democracy? My original (non-offensive?) post has GONE
Very, very, upset here.

TP :beer:

 

[goomboogo]

I apologise for going off original topic but I'm seeking a clarification. Darren, you stated in an earlier post that you begin the boil with the lid off (first 20 or so minutes). Does this mean that at some other point in the boil you have the lid on?

 

[TidalPete]

I apologise for going off original topic but I'm seeking a clarification. Darren, you stated in an earlier post that you begin the boil with the lid off (first 20 or so minutes). Does this mean that at some other point in the boil you have the lid on?

goomboogo,

I asked the same question very early in my AG experience. I think that what Darren means is that if you wish to save gas or electricty, leave the lid on the kettle until the boil starts THEN keep it (the lid) off for the duration of the boil. Is that what you are getting at Darren?


TP :beer:

 

[Insight]

Whichever mod it is who is deleting posts, would you mind giving us some idea why? I count 7 different people whom you have censored today, most responding to Pat's last rant. Why is Pat's last post calling members of the forum "stupid" (for the second time in this thread) allowed to stand, while our mostly humourous responses are censored?

I respect your right to run the forum in the manner you see fit, but it seems you are playing favourites.

 

[staggalee]

Whichever mod it is who is deleting posts, would you mind giving us some idea why? I count 7 different people whom you have censored today, most responding to Pat's last rant. Why is Pat's last post calling members of the forum "stupid" (for the second time in this thread) allowed to stand, while our mostly humourous responses are censored?

I respect your right to run the forum in the manner you see fit, but it seems you are playing favourites.

Look-I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again {and it wil be deleted again}- just let the bloke from WA have his dummy and everythings jake

stagga.