Brewing Myths Caused By Chinese Whispers

[Ducatiboy stu]

I heard that BIAB, No Chill with airlock method produces good beer.......

 

[Darren]

Storing unfermented no-chill is a good idea

cheers

Darren

 

[Jye]

I don't see the need to dumb everything down for beginners.

+1, Brewers come here to learn!

ROFL! Haven't had a chance to read all the above fully but I have read a few over the phone to one person who I know, KNOWS about brewing. It ended up that we were both falling about!

Pat I think you need to do a bit more read and a little less posting before you start calling other brewers opinions stupid.

 

[Bionikal]

Im a new brewer (3rd batch is going down today YAY!)

Im a stubborn guy

here's where it gets messy


I don't have a fridge controller or decent temp control setup, I'm going on the "she'll be right" method. I DO wrap my brew in a wet towel and pour icy water over it but it has got pretty hot a few days, its averaging about 22degrees (low of 18 top of 26).

I'll be the first to admit that i don't know squat about brewing a decent beer, my first batch was pretty average, drinkable but nothing to write home about. The second batch (totally different style) tastes ridiculously similar out of the fermenter (still to be bottled) so i dont know weather my tastebuds are dead/numb or my method sucks.

Will I suddenly change my method and do everything by the books? HELL NO! Will i keep playing around and trying new things? Of course!

I think alot of you guys get caught up in the 'by the books' method and cling to the 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'. I'm the kind of person that will do it different every single time, write down what worked and what sucked and then change everything again. with my last brew i used honey as a priming sugar in some of the bottles and it was the best 3 beers of the batch by far.

I'm not saying throw out your yeasts and start brewing upside down, just mix things up a bit and do things a bit 'out there' or different every now and then.


** disclaimer, i am not responsible if your brews turn out like crap ( like mine) because of this.

 

[KoNG]

I found Palmer quite helpful when learning how to brew, i cant say its better or worse than other books to introduce people to the craft, but it certainly helped me. So for that reason i would recommend it...
I cant really go recommending anything else, because i haven't read them. But like all things learning, take information on board and then form your own thoughts and opinions.

 

[Sammus]

Myth: No-chill will kill you.

This is the biggest myth of all! The truth is that it CAN (not will) kill you, it's just such a small chance that it hasn't happened yet

edit: haha I should practice what I preach.. no more no chill comments I promise

 

[pint of lager]

Not too many years ago, most brewing information was disseminated via clubs and books.

Then along came the net. All of a sudden the information transfer exploded. We had sites like the American Homebrew Digest and our local craftbrewer.org Now we have forum based information. It is no longer a case of Chinese whispers. Any information is reviewed and commented upon by the brewing community.

The real answer to most brewing questions is, it depends. There are so many variables. Which is why ask 10 brewers a question and you get 20 answers.

Some people need their information in one syllable words. Others manage to make their search engine jump through hoops. So the answer to one person won't work for another. There are so many articles and sites on brewing on the web.

With new brewers, I always try and stick to KIS, answer what they are asking and then provide a little bit more information to lead them onwards.

This is a brewers' forum, sometimes people don't agree with the information posted, so the information ends up being peer reviewed.

In Graham Sanders defence, he was part of the founding trio of craftbrewer.org. His posts were usually very in depth and full of information. He freely admitted to his extraordinary extraction figures and the reason behind it.

In defence of the humble zapap. I think most people didn't use a controllable tap, just an on/off snap tap, which will lead to stuck sparges. Also, the open space ratio was usually way too low, not enough holes.

Everyone needs to keep thinking and talking about why they should adopt some of the commercial brewing methods and what ones they can throw out. How to avoid HSA. When to filter and when to leave the beers alone. Why cold conditioning can be a very bad move. How to improve their next brew. Why it is, the process is usually more important than the recipe. Should they decoct. Should they worry about pH. What is the right grain:water ratio in the mash tun. What is the right temperature for a particular yeast.

 

[Trough Lolly]

ROFL! Haven't had a chance to read all the above fully but I have read a few over the phone to one person who I know, KNOWS about brewing. It ended up that we were both falling about!

This brewer has qualifications falling out their ears and the other brewers who have been through the same training refer to this brewer when they have a problem - something I only know about second-hand. So, I think I have proof that my original question wasn't too stupid. I can see that a few replies above also thankfully reflect this :icon_cheers:

I can also see that several of the above answers are stupid if read in context to the original question as it is a question which begs proof.

<snip>

<_<

Perhaps it's because it's Monday, but I don't get you Pat? Any information, regardless of its supposed source or attribution, can be questioned - that's what Science and free thinking is all about... If you don't believe that brewing an ale at 18C is the best temp for a particular yeast, then don't do it. If you think that Palmer's online book is not worth reading, then don't do it. If any and all of the advice that most of us have given out freely and with good intention is allegedly shite or to quote you more accurately, stupid, then ignore it.

Nobody, including so-called self appointed brewing guru's know all there is to brewing - and those who say they do are simply talking crap and are unwittingly the worst offenders. Like other brewers, I learned the basics through trial and error and it wasn't until I realised that online resources existed and the local brewing club was an excellent source of practical knowledge and hands-on experience that my brewed beer actually improved. At one stage I stopped brewing for a couple of years thinking that it was all too hard to get something that tasted half decent - because I didn't bother to ask questions.

Sure, I've been as guilty as anyone that some of my thoughts and comments were inaccurate, flawed or just plain wrong - but I didn't kill anyone by having a go. I was trying to return the favour that many brewers freely gave me when I was "lost" in the brewing wilderness. The fact remains that information and resources such as this forum give you information en masse - what you do with that information is entirely up to you.

To in any way, shape or form criticise those who willingly pass on ideas whether based on their own experience or what they honestly believe to be true and of use to others, is in my opinion, less than gracious.

TL

 

[KoNG]

<_<

Perhaps it's because it's Monday, but I don't get you Pat?

TL

... maybe we could start a "register"...?

 

[Simon W]

Sorry Pat, but you're most recent post in this thread has me scratching my head.... it's possible that it wasn't intentional but to me your post reads as condescending and elitist, it seems that this thread was created so you can sit back with your popcorn(?) and have a giggle about how 'stupid' some AHB members are? Rather childish don't you think?

 

[sinkas]

What is Australian Brewing world?

I dont really see what was so funny about the first dozen or so posts.. maybe I should have a few beers then re-read them.

I think as long as the intention of the advice you are giving to a fellow brewer is in the spirit of them making better beer, then it doesnt really matter if there is any evidence to support it, its only a hobby.

 

[Screwtop]

<_<

Perhaps it's because it's Monday, but I don't get you Pat? Any information, regardless of its supposed source or attribution, can be questioned - that's what Science and free thinking is all about... If you don't believe that brewing an ale at 18C is the best temp for a particular yeast, then don't do it. If you think that Palmer's online book is not worth reading, then don't do it. If any and all of the advice that most of us have given out freely and with good intention is allegedly shite or to quote you more accurately, stupid, then ignore it.

Nobody, including so-called self appointed brewing guru's know all there is to brewing - and those who say they do are simply talking crap and are unwittingly the worst offenders. Like other brewers, I learned the basics through trial and error and it wasn't until I realised that online resources existed and the local brewing club was an excellent source of practical knowledge and hands-on experience that my brewed beer actually improved. At one stage I stopped brewing for a couple of years thinking that it was all too hard to get something that tasted half decent - because I didn't bother to ask questions.

Sure, I've been as guilty as anyone that some of my thoughts and comments were inaccurate, flawed or just plain wrong - but I didn't kill anyone by having a go. I was trying to return the favour that many brewers freely gave me when I was "lost" in the brewing wilderness. The fact remains that information and resources such as this forum give you information en masse - what you do with that information is entirely up to you.

To in any way, shape or form criticise those who willingly pass on ideas whether based on their own experience or what they honestly believe to be true and of use to others, is in my opinion, less than gracious.

TL

I know it's almost a PP length post - BUT.........+1

 

[Zizzle]

Sorry Pat, but you're most recent post in this thread has me scratching my head.... it's possible that it wasn't intentional but to me your post reads as condescending and elitist, it seems that this thread was created so you can sit back with your popcorn(?) and have a giggle about how 'stupid' some AHB members are? Rather childish don't you think?

Well put. I had this feeling too but didn't know how to say it, or if it would be interpreted as a flame.

Looking at Pat's post again, he seems to take on some adversarial tones. Implying that there is one pure truth, that he knows, and that us poor dummies just need to see the light. That this is some sort of theatre and one provides proof to one-up his advesaries and be crowned "right".

I can also see that several of the above answers are stupid if read in context to the original question as it is a question which begs proof.

I myself didn't see any stupid posts. I don't think there are any stupid people here. Are the stupid ones the ones that don't agree with the original post?

In any case, calling people stupid on a public forum can only lower the tone of the debate, discourage disenting views, creating a community of "group think" or an ivory tower.

I can only see 3 or 4 good replies so far.

i.e. only 3 or 4 posts have agreed with the premise? The ones that don't are unenlightened crap?

I disagree. I think the disenting opinions are the worthwhile ones. The "me too"s are much less interesting.

There was one particularly good one and no one has backed him up

Why can't a post stand on it's own merits? Why do we need these tribes of people who engange in "group think" to go around backing each other up.

I for one would hate for the mentality of AHB to go in that direction. I like that beer and good taste are completely subjective. I like it that you may call my beer crap, but if I like it, that is all that matters. I like being able to visit the forums, offer an opinion, offer what has worked for me, and not be attacked for being right or wrong. I like not needing to be backed up, not needing to one-up someone, not needing to provide proof. How do you prove that you like your own beer?

 

[Batz]

Storing unfermented no-chill is a good idea

cheers

Darren

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Stirrer

Batz

 

[PistolPatch]

Whoops! Knew I didn't do enough morning edits today

I thought everyone here knew to ignore anything I write after 9pm! I apologise about the "stupid." comment which was over the top and purely due to me reading from a very narrow angle - probably slightly tilted as well

Lots of interesting reading above so thanks for ignoring my stupid writing and the rather belligerent bits about Palmer - appreciated.

One thing I didn't explain properly was the Chinese whispers bit. I was wondering if Palmer's original text was a lot simpler and was read by most of the older brewers here? Has his more recent additions got more and more detailed?

It's good to see that a few new guys have found the text helpful. I do use sections of it myself and would recommend sections to beginners but not the whole book. Mind you, a great and not insignificant point mentioned here that I had forgotten is that it is free.

Anyway I'd be interested if anyone had an answer to my question above.

I thought I wrote the kit yeast question pretty clearly but apparently not. I'll have another crack...

"Assuming a new brewer wishes to use the yeast that comes with a kit, what temperature should they really brew it at?"

As I said, I'm unsure of the right answer as the few and only good kit beers I have tasted were brewed at higher temps. (One I think was done at 18 but still had a slight twang.)

I think that was why I was bit belligerent as no one last night had addressed that question and I was actually pretty keen for an answer.

Cheers from AHB's sometimes belligerent poster,
Pat

P.S. for Moderators: Temps here over 37 for the rest of the week so please delete all my posts after 9pm

 

[Insight]

<_<

Perhaps it's because it's Monday, but I don't get you Pat? Any information, regardless of its supposed source or attribution, can be questioned - that's what Science and free thinking is all about... If you don't believe that brewing an ale at 18C is the best temp for a particular yeast, then don't do it. If you think that Palmer's online book is not worth reading, then don't do it. If any and all of the advice that most of us have given out freely and with good intention is allegedly shite or to quote you more accurately, stupid, then ignore it.

Nobody, including so-called self appointed brewing guru's know all there is to brewing - and those who say they do are simply talking crap and are unwittingly the worst offenders. Like other brewers, I learned the basics through trial and error and it wasn't until I realised that online resources existed and the local brewing club was an excellent source of practical knowledge and hands-on experience that my brewed beer actually improved. At one stage I stopped brewing for a couple of years thinking that it was all too hard to get something that tasted half decent - because I didn't bother to ask questions.

Sure, I've been as guilty as anyone that some of my thoughts and comments were inaccurate, flawed or just plain wrong - but I didn't kill anyone by having a go. I was trying to return the favour that many brewers freely gave me when I was "lost" in the brewing wilderness. The fact remains that information and resources such as this forum give you information en masse - what you do with that information is entirely up to you.

To in any way, shape or form criticise those who willingly pass on ideas whether based on their own experience or what they honestly believe to be true and of use to others, is in my opinion, less than gracious.

TL

I thought the same when I read Pete's post this morning. Why would you invite people to post their opinions on a topic and then laugh at their "stupid" posts with your mentor who "KNOWS" brewing?

Pete, people who know you personally may have taken this differently, but for those of us who don't you come across as an elitist, a troll, and kind of a twat. Good luck with your brewing.

 

[wambesi]

I thought I wrote the kit yeast question pretty clearly but apparently not. I'll have another crack...

"Assuming a new brewer wishes to use the yeast that comes with a kit, what temperature should they really brew it at?"

When I started someone (can't for the life remember who) told me that it was not the fermentation temperature that was so important but, the stability of the temp I should keep steady.
I have seen my beers get better since getting temp control but I have also done the 12 other odd changes at the same time so hard to tell

 

[Darren]

Temp control is the be-all and end-all of good final product. Yeast makes the beer not the mash (ducks for cover)

cheers

Darren

 

[MHB]

QUOTE (PistolPatch @ Feb 11 2008, 06:43 PM)
I thought I wrote the kit yeast question pretty clearly but apparently not. I'll have another crack...

"Assuming a new brewer wishes to use the yeast that comes with a kit, what temperature should they really brew it at?"

View attachment 17683


17-30 C

MHB

 

[Batz]

You can brew half decent beer without a March Pump.

Carbonation caps work.

Boiling in aluminum can cause you to.....sorry can't remember how that one goes now.

Batz