Brewing Lagers

[Herby_76]

G'day folks,

I'm about to make the plunge and purchase a fridgemate and enter the world of brewing at accurate temperatures. I've been brewing for a few years now and have progressed as far as partial mashing a couple kg's of grain and the rest extract. Up until now I have had pretty much exclusively brewed ales using liquid yeast, but now want to start making some lagers. If any one has some tips for making good lagers would be greatly appreciated. I wouldn't mind brewing some Eurpoean style lagers (not stella or heinekins though) to start off with (pretty broad I know) Maybe some pilseners and German style brews.

Things I'm particularly interested in are what temperature should grains be mashed at. What type of grains are well suited for lagers. And any other general hints for mashing for lager brews.

I'd also like to know what types of yeasts are good and flexible for a number of different styles. Also any general lager yeast tips i.e. durations, rest periods, cold conditioning etc.

cheers
herby

 

[matti]

General rule for lager.

Pitch twice as much yeast as an ale and aerate in a sanitary fashion.
Try to pitch yeast at 15 degrees into wort that is 12 degrees.
WLP833 is a good all round yeast.

Grains in partial: 2-3 kilos of pale malt with some speciality malt.
Go easy on crystal no more then 5% of total bill including extract.

Off course use German noble hops.

The fermentation cycle is most vital.

After 2/3 of the ferment I.e
1.047 OG to 1.022
rack the beer quietly to a second fermenter.
If you manage to pitch yeast cold and you won't need a diacetyl rest.
A diacetyl rest at 16-18 degrees prior to racking is normal though in home brew world.

Once beer in second vessel/fermenter the yeast will finnish its job.
Lower the temperature about 8 degrees and @Final gravity to as close to Zero as posssible.
No need to rack the beer again. You need the yeast to finnish cleaning up while Cold conditioning.

A good fermentation and proper cold condtioning you can have the beer in the keg or bottle in a out 3-4 weeks.

7-10 days iintial ferment
another week in second vessel
chill for a week.

Keep in mind that when bottling it will take a bit longer to carb up.

If you are serious about lager brewing get "New brewing lager beer" by gregory Noonan.
Though John Palmers on line techniques is a lighter read.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I agree with most of what matti has to say there - except for a couple of details. I will say though that ther eis nothing wrong with Matti's advice, do as he says and you will end up with fine lager beer - my preferences just constitute what I do, they should also give you a fine lager beer. You will need to make up your own mind.

Mash and grains - just like Matti said

Fermentation - here is where we differ.

Yeast choice - If you want to use Wyeast - then 2124 Bohemian Lager is a fine general purpose lager yeast, that you can use to brew almost any lager.

As Matti said, pitch a lot of yeast - twice as much as for an ale. I wouldn't even think about pitching anything less than a 2L starter into a "normal" strength lager and would suggest you go to www.mrmalty.com and use the pitching rate calculator there to work out how big a starter you should make.

How I run my lager fermentations is to pitch into wort that is at or just below the temperature you want to conduct your fermentation at - and I suggest that you aim for the lower end of the 2124 yeast's range of 9-14. So 10 or 11C - it will take a while at the lower temperature.

I keep an eye on my fermentation, and as soon as I see the activity level drop - or the Krausen start to fall back into the beer, I start to raise the temperature a little. 1C per day, till I get to the top of the yeast's range. Then I let the beer finish out completely at that temperature. After the beer is done fermenting, a diacetyl rest for a day or so at 16-18 wont hurt anything. It might well not be needed, but it wont hurt to do it.

Then crash your fermentor down to as low as you can - 0 is the optimum, but whatever your fridge goes down to at its coldest setting will be fine. Leave it for a week or so to lager.

Then bottle or keg. After the beer has carbed up - the longer you leave it to lager in the fridge, the better

You will notice that I don't do the racking step that Matti suggests - its my opinion that that step is not needed. I feel that it adds nothing to the quality of the beer and it wastes time and effort, as well as presenting another opportunity to infect or oxidise your beer. Other people think that racking is vital... so its not exactly a rock solid "must do" either way.

Lagers can be wonderful - I love an ale as much as the next guy, but the smoothness and drinkability of a well crafted lager... they are beautiful things to make.

Have fun working out what does the trick for you.

Cheers

Thirsty

 

[blackbock]

Things I'm particularly interested in are what temperature should grains be mashed at. What type of grains are well suited for lagers. And any other general hints for mashing for lager brews.

Just trying to fill in some gaps that haven't already been covered.

One secret to making a nice lager is not to complicate the grain bill. You can start with 100% pilsener malt if you want to, depending on what you are trying to make. But even something like an Oktoberfest or Doppelbock doesn't need to have 6 types of grain like some recipes would lead you to believe. You can do a lot with just 3: Pilsener, Munich and light caramel malt. For German style beers, you can't go past the Weyermann range, I especially like the Weyermann Carahell. Of course you can add small amounts of other things, but what I wouldn't do is add any unmalted adjuncts, like roast barley, or raw wheat. They are just out of place in lagers, IMO. Even malted wheat is not something most lager brewers would use.

Mash temperatures. I won't go into this, suggest you do a search with keywords like: single infusion, step mash, decoction mash, protein rest, mash out. Then read Zwickel's blog on comparing single infusion mash to step mash.
Step mashes are easy and are the first step in advancing your lager brewing technique.

All the best with it

 

[buttersd70]

..................
doesn't need to have 6 types of grain like some recipes would lead you to believe. You can do a lot with just 3............

I think this point is extremely valid not only to lagers, but also to most other beers. I think this is a great piece of advice on grain brewing in general. Way too many overcomplicated recipes imho.

 

[Herby_76]

Some good tips there guys. I really appreciate it :beerbang:

 

[notung]

I agree with most of what matti has to say there - except for a couple of details. I will say though that ther eis nothing wrong with Matti's advice, do as he says and you will end up with fine lager beer - my preferences just constitute what I do, they should also give you a fine lager beer. You will need to make up your own mind.

Mash and grains - just like Matti said

Fermentation - here is where we differ.

Yeast choice - If you want to use Wyeast - then 2124 Bohemian Lager is a fine general purpose lager yeast, that you can use to brew almost any lager.

As Matti said, pitch a lot of yeast - twice as much as for an ale. I wouldn't even think about pitching anything less than a 2L starter into a "normal" strength lager and would suggest you go to www.mrmalty.com and use the pitching rate calculator there to work out how big a starter you should make.

How I run my lager fermentations is to pitch into wort that is at or just below the temperature you want to conduct your fermentation at - and I suggest that you aim for the lower end of the 2124 yeast's range of 9-14. So 10 or 11C - it will take a while at the lower temperature.

I keep an eye on my fermentation, and as soon as I see the activity level drop - or the Krausen start to fall back into the beer, I start to raise the temperature a little. 1C per day, till I get to the top of the yeast's range. Then I let the beer finish out completely at that temperature. After the beer is done fermenting, a diacetyl rest for a day or so at 16-18 wont hurt anything. It might well not be needed, but it wont hurt to do it.

Then crash your fermentor down to as low as you can - 0 is the optimum, but whatever your fridge goes down to at its coldest setting will be fine. Leave it for a week or so to lager.

Then bottle or keg. After the beer has carbed up - the longer you leave it to lager in the fridge, the better

You will notice that I don't do the racking step that Matti suggests - its my opinion that that step is not needed. I feel that it adds nothing to the quality of the beer and it wastes time and effort, as well as presenting another opportunity to infect or oxidise your beer. Other people think that racking is vital... so its not exactly a rock solid "must do" either way.

Lagers can be wonderful - I love an ale as much as the next guy, but the smoothness and drinkability of a well crafted lager... they are beautiful things to make.

Have fun working out what does the trick for you.

Cheers

Thirsty

G'day - glad I read this topic, as I have just begun fermenting a Munich Dunkel with Wyeast #2308 (Munich Lager). I pitched warm, at about 19C, and have now reduced down to 11C. I'll take your advice Thirsty Boy and skip the racking ordeal. That part always stresses me out! Thanks for the advice - and for the link to MrMalty's pitching calculator. That is great stuff.

 

[notung]

G'day - glad I read this topic, as I have just begun fermenting a Munich Dunkel with Wyeast #2308 (Munich Lager). I pitched warm, at about 19C, and have now reduced down to 11C. I'll take your advice Thirsty Boy and skip the racking ordeal. That part always stresses me out! Thanks for the advice - and for the link to MrMalty's pitching calculator. That is great stuff.

Well, I hope I haven't stuffed the Munich Dunkel up. It's still fermenting in the fridge after 10 days and had an OG of 1.056. For the first 7 days I fermented at 11C, then raised to 17C on that day for a 24 hr diacetyl rest. I thought this would finish it off. (I hadn't checked the gravity before the rest, because it's clumsy lifting the fermenter back out of the fridge - wish I did!) After 24hrs it was still bubbling like crazy so I lowered to 14C for another day and have now gone back down to original fermentation temp of 11C.

I'm not sure if the crazy changes above are going to yield decent results, or if they even qualify as a diacetyl rest at all. If anyone can give me their opinion on this, that would be great...

 

[SJW]

Fermentation - here is where we differ.

Yeast choice - If you want to use Wyeast - then 2124 Bohemian Lager is a fine general purpose lager yeast, that you can use to brew almost any lager.

As Matti said, pitch a lot of yeast - twice as much as for an ale. I wouldn't even think about pitching anything less than a 2L starter into a "normal" strength lager and would suggest you go to www.mrmalty.com and use the pitching rate calculator there to work out how big a starter you should make.

How I run my lager fermentations is to pitch into wort that is at or just below the temperature you want to conduct your fermentation at - and I suggest that you aim for the lower end of the 2124 yeast's range of 9-14. So 10 or 11C - it will take a while at the lower temperature.

I keep an eye on my fermentation, and as soon as I see the activity level drop - or the Krausen start to fall back into the beer, I start to raise the temperature a little. 1C per day, till I get to the top of the yeast's range. Then I let the beer finish out completely at that temperature. After the beer is done fermenting, a diacetyl rest for a day or so at 16-18 wont hurt anything. It might well not be needed, but it wont hurt to do it.

Then crash your fermentor down to as low as you can - 0 is the optimum, but whatever your fridge goes down to at its coldest setting will be fine. Leave it for a week or so to lager.

Then bottle or keg. After the beer has carbed up - the longer you leave it to lager in the fridge, the better

You will notice that I don't do the racking step that Matti suggests - its my opinion that that step is not needed. I feel that it adds nothing to the quality of the beer and it wastes time and effort, as well as presenting another opportunity to infect or oxidise your beer. Other people think that racking is vital... so its not exactly a rock solid "must do" either way.

Lagers can be wonderful - I love an ale as much as the next guy, but the smoothness and drinkability of a well crafted lager... they are beautiful things to make.

Have fun working out what does the trick for you.

Cheers

+1 Good advice there. Just keep it simple and enjoy. By keep it simple I am talking about grain bills too. Pilsners, just try 100% pils, and then next time add a little Munich or something for colour. Your dont need 4 grains, it aint breakfast cerial. And in general a 60 40 20 hop shedule will do the trick too.

Steve