Bread Porn

[pdilley]

For crumbly crumb issues I've noticed if the bread rises and dries a bit on the ouside that if you leave it on during punch down that you get streaks of hard white lines through the bread that are areas of cracking apart in the crumb.


Dave the panini is the tiny bun form, mine are square-ish of the pane but you are right about the huge gas bubbles and trying to not compress them by working it too much.

In general I've always been told it's best to underproof your dough when starting out than overproof as you can always expand the rise time out on the next batch. Something I've not done yet as the last batch I overproofed so it didn't hve as big of a rise action when starting the bake.

I think if I could get paninis down and sourdoughs then I'd be a happy camper for the test of my life

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Airgead]

Ok. Here's my 2 day bread recipe.

For the ferment -

10g yeast
500g white baker's flour
10g salt
350g water

Knead this dough as you usually would then form into a ball and place in a lightly floured bowl. Cover with a baking cloth and leave somewhere cool to rise for at least 6 hours. I rise mine for 12-18 hours in the fridge. The longer the better.

This makes 900g of ferment. The main recipe used 600g of it so you have 300 over that you can either keep going by adding more flour and water or it makes a fantastic pizza base.

For the main dough -

950g white baker's flour (I substitute in 3-600g spelt of wholemeal when I want something a bit different)
50g rye flour
720g water
600g ferment
20g salt

Mix the 2 flours in a bowl. Add salt and water (my recipe says to add the salt half way through kneading but I find that really messy and it doesn't seem to have any effect). Mix until the dough comes together than cover with a cloth and rest for 30 mins. This initial resting is apparently called the Autolyse method. It was developed by Professor Raymond Calvel in France. The resting extracts the glutens from the flour and helps the dough come together quicker. I dunno... It does come together pretty quickly but I haven't tried doing the experiment and not resting it yet.

Add the fermented dough and mix well. It helps if you tear the ferment into pieces first. It also helps if you take the ferment out of the fridge and let come up to room temp before you start.

Work the dough as normal. I use the French kneading method. Use whatever method you like. This makes a lot of dough. Its too much for my mixer (Kenwood) to handle so you will probably end up working it by hand.

Lightly flour the work surface and form the dough into a ball. Place in a floured bowl,cover with a cloth and let rise for 1 1/2 hours.

Lightly flour the work surface again. Turn out the dough. Fold back into a ball. Place back in bowl,cover and let rise for another hour. It should be double in volume by now. The re-folding helps develop the structure.

Flour the work surface. Divide the dough. I find it makes 4 good size loaves or 12 baguettes or 24 regular rolls.. Shape as lightly as possible .

Place on floured cloth or baking trays. Cover with a cloth and let ruse for an hour or until just double in volume.

Slash tops. Place into a pre-heated 250c oven using peel or baking tray and mist well. Reduce heat to 220 after a minute or 2 and bake till done. Loaves take about 25 mins. Baguettes 12. Your oven may vary. Unless you have a giant oven you will need to bake in batches.

Best bread I have ever made.

You can keep the remaining ferment going with more flour and water and it will become a sourdough. Or you can use it to make pizzas.

Cheers
Dave

 

[pdilley]

Cheers for that Dave.

I just finished watching the CIA DVD on basic bread making (and laminated dough making [puff pastry]) and after seeing that I really feel like throwing away all my bread books and cook books with sections on bread making for being blue faced posers and just rubbish

They even go into finished dough temperature and the calculation of friction temperature factor of your mixer so you can calibrate any mixer. They didn't cover recipes using ferment as an ingredient for better flavour and focus on day breads and making perfect baguettes down to criticality of slicing in the scores length depth shape and overlap and how every shape to the same dough effect crust and crumb.

Good eye opener on the techniques used that I've not seen in any bread books in my local bookstores to date.

Best of all is seeing all the dough faults compared side by side pulled apart showing the differences when handled.

I'm going to give your 2 day a go this weekend. CIA describe salt as retarding yeast growth and used to slow down for flavour development and in hot bread shops or hot weather countries which explains why I found bread in southern Mexico so salty!

Also good seeing how a single dough can be worked into multiple crumb densities and crusts by the professional bakers manipulative touch.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Airgead]

Cheers for that Dave.

I just finished watching the CIA DVD on basic bread making (and laminated dough making [puff pastry]) and after seeing that I really feel like throwing away all my bread books and cook books with sections on bread making for being blue faced posers and just rubbish

What is this DVD of which you speak (and can I have a copy ;-)...

Cheers
Dave

 

[pdilley]

http://www.ciaprochef.com/fbi/dvds/bakingbread.html

They have other DVD products and books. They are short and succinct and to the point as they train professional chefs.

I'm sure Google will reward searches

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Airgead]

http://www.ciaprochef.com/fbi/dvds/bakingbread.html

They have other DVD products and books. They are short and succinct and to the point as they train professional chefs.

I'm sure Google will reward searches

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

Ahh yes... it helps if you search for culinary institute of america not cia... Typing CIA bread making into google gives you 400gazilion links to something claiming to be a cia field survival guide.

Looks interesting. Might have to pick up a copy.

Cheers
Dave

 

[wobbly]

The book "Wild Sourdough the natural way to bake by Yoke Mardewi" is an excelent publication on the subject of making and baking with naturally femented sour dough bread.

Yoke only recomends you use good quality organic ingredients (which I don't necessarily follow 100%)

The book is a detail methodology from making your starter using whole grain rye flour and doesn't require you to discard half each day during the fermentaion period. It can be kept in the fridge for up to a month without issue and she also describes how to dry (like a water craker) the starter for future (years) reuse just grind it up and give it a feed and away you go after about 12 hours

Yoke runs classes in Perth and I have attended a couple and all her techniques are very easy and work. The starter she uses at the class has been in existance for over 5 years she just keeps rebulding it after each class.

Her technique of "Air Kneading" is very effective and easy to do. You just basically pick the dough up and through it into the air about 50 to 75 cm and let it slap back down on the bench. Do this for about 5 minutes and kneading is finished.

She also has developed a technique to basically perpare dough for 5 days baking on day 1 and after an initial rise of about 1 to 2 hours place the dough in the fridge for up to 5 days before baking (Fresh sour dough bread every day for 5 days) When the dough is removed from the fridge all that is necessary is to "fold" the dough back onto itself about 4 or 5 times and then shape the loaf and set aside for the final rise. This can take 5 to 6 hours as the dough is starting from a cold (5 or 6 degrees) basis

The publication is well worth a read She doesn't have a web site but her e-mail address is "[email protected]"

Cheers
Wobbly

 

[Airgead]

Her technique of "Air Kneading" is very effective and easy to do. You just basically pick the dough up and through it into the air about 50 to 75 cm and let it slap back down on the bench. Do this for about 5 minutes and kneading is finished.

Sounds very much like the French kneading method I use.

It is very effective but requires a very soft and moist dough (mine are usually around 70-75% hydration... chibbata is up to 80%) . If your dough is firm you need to use the English method.

Cheers
Dave

 

[felten]

Here is my latest bread, no pictures of the crumb atm because I am of the opinion that it is too beautiful to eat; so I will probably be bronzing it, or giving it to my brother, whichever happens first.



I found my breads improved 10 fold when I started using this banneton I found around the house, SO much more consistent.

 

[Airgead]

Here is my latest bread, no pictures of the crumb atm because I am of the opinion that it is too beautiful to eat; so I will probably be bronzing it, or giving it to my brother, whichever happens first.
View attachment 37900
View attachment 37901

I found my breads improved 10 fold when I started using this banneton I found around the house, SO much more consistent.
View attachment 37903

They are things of absolute beauty.

Edit - I'm feeling very chuffed at the moment. We have some people from our French office out here at the moment so I gave them some of my mini baguettes last Friday with instructions to eat them over the weekend and report back on quality today. The reports are in and they are all positive. My French bread is authentically French as assessed by authentic French people. WOO HOO!

Cheers
Dave

 

[pdilley]

Congratulations Dave.

I'm finishing off my rolls with that dough. Past 1st day crunchiness and now onto chewy yummy roll stage.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[bonj]

Made some small croissants for SWMBO for mother's day. I'm pretty happy with the result for my first attempt.

 

[drsmurto]

Made some small croissants for SWMBO for mother's day. I'm pretty happy with the result for my first attempt.
View attachment 37940

Wow, that is pure porn Bonj.

Be honest, is there is enough butter in one of these to fuel a small country?

 

[Katherine]

Made some small croissants for SWMBO for mother's day. I'm pretty happy with the result for my first attempt.
View attachment 37940

YUMMY!

 

[bonj]

Wow, that is pure porn Bonj.

Be honest, is there is enough butter in one of these to fuel a small country?

Butter, sugar... all the good stuff :lol:

 

[Katherine]

Butter, sugar... all the good stuff :lol:

how did the inside turn out?????

 

[bonj]

Sorry, no photos of the inside. Too busy eating them. It was soft and buttery inside, with the characteristic croissant layered effect. I think I could probably do better, but for my first attempt, I'm extremely happy.

 

[Katherine]

They look fantastic.... and that you have done it before! did you get the recipe out of CRUST?

 

[bonj]

Yep! Followed the recipe in Crust. I just used normal supermarket unsalted butter, and was a bit worried about whether they'd work out during the process, but they turned out really well.

 

[Airgead]

Yep! Followed the recipe in Crust. I just used normal supermarket unsalted butter, and was a bit worried about whether they'd work out during the process, but they turned out really well.

Been meaning to give that recipe a try for ages... you've inspired me to do it.

I can hear my arteries clanging shut already...

Cheers
Dave