Bottling And Carbonation

[wimbymoonshine]

Hi All,

Ive currently got a pale ale in bottles and popped one today to try it (day 20). The taste is fantastic however there are no bubbles and absolutely no head.

I bulk primed this batch with 120g of glucose, boiled in water and tipped into the fermenter, gave it a gentle stir and left it stand about 30mins before bottling.

my last batch had the same prob, however i individually bottle primed at 4g per 500ml bottle. Someone then told me the bottles need stirring every so often and doing this helped but was still a bit flat.... Any thoughts?

cheers

 

[Tyred]

Is it completely flat or is it not holding head ?

I don't know much about bulk priming, but you said you added the priming solution to the fermenter.
I think you would need to stir a little more often to keep the sugar in suspension. I don't know if the gentle stir would mix properly.

 

[braufrau]

Did you keep it warm for 2 weeks? >18C??

 

[wimbymoonshine]

Well there is a little gas... bugger all but some bubbles are there.
Yep, kept it warm > 18deg C.

If it didnt mix properly that would mean there is loads of sugar in some bottles and none in the others and that would mean some bottles should explode or be super gassy and others not?

cheers

 

[citizensnips]

If it didnt mix properly that would mean there is loads of sugar in some bottles and none in the others and that would mean some bottles should explode or be super gassy and others not?

Yep thats right. I prefer just using carbonation drops when im lazy and they work perfectly every time. I have never had a non carbonated bottle.
Cheers

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Ah the bane of the bottler, getting the damn things to carbonate.

Usually it comes down to:

i) How much yeast is left to ferment out the bottling additions. ( I have had beers that I left too long in the fermenter and then took over 2 months to carbonate ). If you are worried about this, you can take a little bit from the fermenter and mix it up in ( only need a teaspoon full or so ).

ii) How much additional fermentables you added. This one is pretty straight forward, but I probably wouldn't leave it for 30 mins after giving at gentle stir as I would imagine unless the sugar had well and truly dissolved, it would probably be heavier than the rest of the wort and poll down the bottom. Would at least give it another stir just prior to bottling.

iii) The ambient temperature that they are carbonating at. (Note leaving them inside where it gets down to < 10C at night is not going to do it). My favourite trick is to put an immersion heater in a tub (cheap aquarium one is fine) with about 5cms of water and stand the bottles up in it.

Another trick to help gauge the carbonation level without consuming lots of precious beer is to put at least one lot in something like the coopers PET bottles. You can just to a squeeze test on these to gauge the carbonation level.


The other thing you need is lots of patience or even better a kegging system .

 

[Kingy]

I probably woldve added at least 150 grams of dextrose for 23litres. I dont bottle much anymore but when i do i bulk prime like you did and every 7 or 8 longnecks ill give the wort a gentle stir to stir the sugars up again as it it tends to sink to the bottum. I stir at least 3 times when bottling a batch.
Also after 20 days it should be well on its way to being carbed with the recent ambient temperatures lately unless you keep them in a relative cool place it will take a few weeks longer.
Just like through winter it always takes longer for bottles to carb up.
cheers kingy

edit:what chris said below

Ah the bane of the bottler, getting the damn things to carbonate.

Usually it comes down to:

i) How much yeast is left to ferment out the bottling additions. ( I have had beers that I left too long in the fermenter and then took over 2 months to carbonate ). If you are worried about this, you can take a little bit from the fermenter and mix it up in ( only need a teaspoon full or so ).

ii) How much additional fermentables you added. This one is pretty straight forward, but I probably wouldn't leave it for 30 mins after giving at gentle stir as I would imagine unless the sugar had well and truly dissolved, it would probably be heavier than the rest of the wort and poll down the bottom. Would at least give it another stir just prior to bottling.

iii) The ambient temperature that they are carbonating at. (Note leaving them inside where it gets down to < 10C at night is not going to do it). My favourite trick is to put an immersion heater in a tub (cheap aquarium one is fine) with about 5cms of water and stand the bottles up in it.
The other thing you need is lots of patience or even better a kegging system .

 

[Keifer]

Someone then told me the bottles need stirring every so often and doing this helped but was still a bit flat.... Any thoughts?

lol umm bottles dont need stirring

 

[brettprevans]

lol umm bottles dont need stirring

funny buggar!

the bottles sometimes do need to be tipped upside down etc to mix the yeast and sugar up a bit to get the carbonation going in cold whether. got to remember, yeast is lazy, esp when cold.

search for bulk priming rates on site, they are listed. I dont bulk prime so i cant remember the rates. sorry. Simpletorro has posted them before, as has wortgames. so that should help narrow your search

 

[matti]

5-6g/l dark ales
6-7g/l bitter pommy ales
7-8g/l pale ales aussie ales
8-9g/l for pilsner and lagers

2 weeks at 18+ degrees for ales and do give 'em a stir after a week and allow to settle again.
Same for lager if you in hurry BUT better at 12-16 degrees for 6 weeks.
All bottled beer best to drink at 6-12 weeks.

 

[simpletotoro]

Hi All,

Ive currently got a pale ale in bottles and popped one today to try it (day 20). The taste is fantastic however there are no bubbles and absolutely no head.

I bulk primed this batch with 120g of glucose, boiled in water and tipped into the fermenter, gave it a gentle stir and left it stand about 30mins before bottling.

my last batch had the same prob, however i individually bottle primed at 4g per 500ml bottle. Someone then told me the bottles need stirring every so often and doing this helped but was still a bit flat.... Any thoughts?

cheers

hi i use this table

Final Gravity Grams
1006-1008 180
1008-1010 160
1010-1014 140
1014-1018 120
1019-1025 100

link as follows
grumpys bulk priming

look i'm no expert but in the last eight months since say brew 4 or 5 (brewing beers 30-33 at the moment) i've used this table and never been disappointed with it ...
hope it helps ...i also just use normal cane sugar to bulk prime with ...
cheers simpletotoro

 

[wimbymoonshine]

Thanks all... I have a bulk priming calculator (http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html) which i used to calculate the priming rate. At 2.4 volumes of C02 and final temp 22deg i got about 4.2oz which is about 120g. I checked this calculator against a published nomograph and it seems to match.

My FG was 1006 so based on the above table i should use 180g. Also the 7-8g/L for pale ales makes 180g approx for 5gals. To me this table doesnt mean much as i dont know where it comes from and i would be scared of having exploding bottles due to overpriming if i went with the table, where as the nomograph and priming calc are based on principles.

Then again, im the one with no fizz in my beer! What to do? any more experience with bulk priming calcs?

cheers.

p.s Im in the UK so the ambient temps ur having in aus are just p1ssing me off! however my ferm cabinet is climate controlled through the central heating of the house

 

[matti]

Your climate there is much more even and better for brewing without fridge control so don't be jelous lol.
I think you should either look into if the bottles contains traces of detergent as will deter foaming.
Or just leave the bottles longer. Just give them a little twist once a week or so to liven up the yeastie beasties.
cherio UK

 

[simpletotoro]

Thanks all... I have a bulk priming calculator (http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html) which i used to calculate the priming rate. At 2.4 volumes of C02 and final temp 22deg i got about 4.2oz which is about 120g. I checked this calculator against a published nomograph and it seems to match.

My FG was 1006 so based on the above table i should use 180g. Also the 7-8g/L for pale ales makes 180g approx for 5gals. To me this table doesnt mean much as i dont know where it comes from and i would be scared of having exploding bottles due to overpriming if i went with the table, where as the nomograph and priming calc are based on principles.

Then again, im the one with no fizz in my beer! What to do? any more experience with bulk priming calcs?

cheers.

p.s Im in the UK so the ambient temps ur having in aus are just p1ssing me off! however my ferm cabinet is climate controlled through the central heating of the house

shit shpuld have mentioned that the tables based on a 23 litre ferment...just a thought but what temps are you taking your FG at...?
cheers simpletotoro

 

[BEC26]

related, so not completely OT . . ..

my 1st batch (coopers micro brew kit starter) Tastes fine, good head and bubble ( I think) . .. my question is . . .

Why are PET bottles much more solid/firmer before putting them in the fridge to cool down? There is a noticable difference that doesn't occur with other commercial PET bottles drinks (coke et al)


I just went and disturbed the yeast on half of the batch to see what happens.

I want a bit more fizz when I crack the seal . . . .

Cheers

 

[warra48]

related, so not completely OT . . ..

my 1st batch (coopers micro brew kit starter) Tastes fine, good head and bubble ( I think) . .. my question is . . .

Why are PET bottles much more solid/firmer before putting them in the fridge to cool down? There is a noticable difference that doesn't occur with other commercial PET bottles drinks (coke et al)
I just went and disturbed the yeast on half of the batch to see what happens.

I want a bit more fizz when I crack the seal . . . .

Cheers

As beer cools down, it absorbs more CO. As it warms up, more comes out of suspension, thus raising the pressure in the bottle.
Soft drinks, such as coke, are very highly carbonated, more so than the avarage beer. If you want more fizz, you have to prime higher. I'd be careful with glass, if you do that, to avoid bottle bombs. The PET bottles will just split AFAIK if the pressure gets too much.