Boiling Kit Can - Increase, Reduce Or Same Bitterness?

[husky]

I picked up a couple of cheap coopers mexican cervesa cans a while back that I want to get rid of while I have a free fermenter.

I have heard of people boiling the kits to remove the hop bitterness of the kits however my query is will this actaully increase the bitterness as it would with a normal grain wort that has hopps added then removed. If this wort is then boiled the bitterness still increases as the oils are still in the solution even though the hops have been physically removed?(I learned this the hard way)

My concern is that I will be doing a 2 can brew to 23L and I do full boils. The bitterness will already be around 40 and I want to add a lot of late american hops basically using the pre bittering and malt only.
I cant really afford for the bitterness to increase over a half hour boil basically.

Anyone shed some light?
cheers

 

[np1962]

I picked up a couple of cheap coopers mexican cervesa cans a while back that I want to get rid of while I have a free fermenter.

I have heard of people boiling the kits to remove the hop bitterness of the kits however my query is will this actaully increase the bitterness as it would with a normal grain wort that has hopps added then removed. If this wort is then boiled the bitterness still increases as the oils are still in the solution even though the hops have been physically removed?(I learned this the hard way)

My concern is that I will be doing a 2 can brew to 23L and I do full boils. The bitterness will already be around 40 and I want to add a lot of late american hops basically using the pre bittering and malt only.
I cant really afford for the bitterness to increase over a half hour boil basically.

Anyone shed some light?
cheers

If you are boiling up some extra malt then I would boil that on its own and add the Cervesa cans in at the end, no need to boil them at all.
Cheers
Nige

 

[husky]

was not planning to add any extra malt, there should be enough from the kits to get 1.047ish.
Need to add the kit cans to get the gravity up for the hops boil.

 

[michaelcocks]

I picked up a couple of cheap coopers mexican cervesa cans a while back that I want to get rid of while I have a free fermenter.

I have heard of people boiling the kits to remove the hop bitterness of the kits however my query is will this actaully increase the bitterness as it would with a normal grain wort that has hopps added then removed. If this wort is then boiled the bitterness still increases as the oils are still in the solution even though the hops have been physically removed?(I learned this the hard way)

My concern is that I will be doing a 2 can brew to 23L and I do full boils. The bitterness will already be around 40 and I want to add a lot of late american hops basically using the pre bittering and malt only.
I cant really afford for the bitterness to increase over a half hour boil basically.

Anyone shed some light?
cheers

Interesting question
I always thought i had read somewher t that you could drive away the bittternes though boiling
But was corrected recently on this forum and told that the bitterness remains the same
However beersmith seems to reduce the ibu as you reduce the boil time even if you specify a prebittered extract

So now I am not sure

I think iso hop is basically locked in

Be interested in the knowledge of the folks who have boiled the snot out of the pre buttered kits

Why don't you just add the Mex kit late? it only has about 17 ibu per kit

 

[King Brown]

Boiling does not remove the bitter alpha acids, only the more volotile flavour and aroma compounds. If you add hops the longer you boil them the more bitterness you get out of them so I doubt boiling a kit would remove any bitterness. Also many can kits contain iso-hops which I've read boiling "may result in unpleasant flavours" (Laurie Strachan - complete guide to beer and brewing)

If you want to get the gravity of the boil up you could always replace one/both cans with unhopped malt extract and just add some hops at the beginning of the boil, then boil for an hour. But keep in mind a two can is gonna have more residual sweetness left than a kit and kilo of dextrose, so the extra bitterness isn't gonna hurt. How long are you gonna boil the hops for? Unless your boiling for longer than 15 minutes I wouldn't be too concerned about them adding much bitterness (though they will add some) if anything most kits are lightly hopped anyway so you shouldn't run into too many problems

 

[thesunsettree]

"may result in unpleasant flavours"

+1 imo. I boiled a kit can once. It didnt taste any more or less bitter, the best way i can explain it is that the flavours seemed really distorted. It was drinkable early but i left half a keg for a month or so and it only got worse, tipped the last third of the keg. It was like all the flavour profiles just fell apart. Certainly wouldnt do it again and wouldnt recommend it to anyone, but hey thats just my experience with a one off attempt.

Cheers matt

 

[np1962]

Re read the OP.
Are you after just the aroma from the American Hops?
Have you thought about using the hop tea method or even just dry hopping?
Cheers
Nige

 

[pcmfisher]

I am just wondering why you would want to do full boil.

If you want to get some hop flavour/aroma why not just do a small 4-5 litre boil with a portion of the can to about 1040.

 

[husky]

Im only looking to add some flavour and aroma, and using the pre bittered contents for the bittering.
I think I will just do a small boil. Im not overly concerned with how it turns out, Im basically just trying to get rid of the cans and since I have an empty fermenter now is a goot time.
I will be lookign to add perhaps 20IBU total of NS and cascade at 5 and 15 mins.

 

[CraigMan]

I picked up a couple of cheap coopers mexican cervesa cans a while back that I want to get rid of while I have a free fermenter.

I have heard of people boiling the kits to remove the hop bitterness of the kits however my query is will this actaully increase the bitterness as it would with a normal grain wort that has hopps added then removed. If this wort is then boiled the bitterness still increases as the oils are still in the solution even though the hops have been physically removed?(I learned this the hard way)

My concern is that I will be doing a 2 can brew to 23L and I do full boils. The bitterness will already be around 40 and I want to add a lot of late american hops basically using the pre bittering and malt only.
I cant really afford for the bitterness to increase over a half hour boil basically.

Anyone shed some light?
cheers

It's probably too late for a reply, but what I did was, using two cans, I took half of one can and added it to 1.5 gallons of water. Brought that to the boil and used it for the hop schedule. (You might want to top up a bit periodically to avoid it boiling down too low.) Then I added the rest of the extract at the end. That way, you're only boiling 1/4 of the extract, and it won't be as noticeable. I worked very well. The only thing is that you will have to add water to bring it to 5 gals, and I don't know if you want to do that.

Cheers
Craig

(CraigTube on YouTube)

 

[fasty73]

I also boil the cans just to make it easier to tip the contents into the fermenter. I only boil for 10 or 15 minutes then fill the can with boiling water from the jug. Will this effect my brew?

 

[keifer33]

For the brews you do fasty there is potentially more negatives than positives. There is really no need to boil a can for that long. When I do a boil for partials and decide to use a pre bittered can I'll drop it in at the end and might quickly bring it back upto the boil incase. As always if it's working for you don't change it as you obviously enjoy your beers or to drunk to taste em

 

[fasty73]

For the brews you do fasty there is potentially more negatives than positives. There is really no need to boil a can for that long. When I do a boil for partials and decide to use a pre bittered can I'll drop it in at the end and might quickly bring it back upto the boil incase. As always if it's working for you don't change it as you obviously enjoy your beers or to drunk to taste em

LOL, yeah but the better I can make them taste the better!!! I want to make nice beer. All of my work mates seem to enjoy it. I have even changed the minds of a couple about using Tooheys New cans.

 

[levin_ae92]

longer boils will break down isomerised alpha acids after a while, decreasing bitterness, but it takes a while, about 2hrs at 100deg, an hour at 110deg, to start to see a decrease, which I doubt youll reach

 

[keifer33]

Are you ready to do some hop boils fasty? That way the time spent boiling might not be wasted if your only trying to dissolve.

Get 5lts of water and around 500g DME and bring that to the boil, then throw in around 15g of some nice hops that your interested in trying as these will add a bit of flavour then keep that on a gentle boil for around 10 mins then turn of the heat, get the trusty can opener and dissolve the can in that and throw it straight in the fermenter or cool it in the sink and your off. Will...1 remove the need to boil the can...2 make the beer taste better...3 the next step to doing a few extracts/partials then maybe ag

 

[fasty73]

I did actually post that I have started to add hops. I got some pride of ringwood (thanks to manticles suggestion) and added to my last 2 brews. I always dissolve my dexrose in 2 litres of water, boiled for about 10 minutes or until it's dissolved properly. I wanted to add my hops to this but instead followed the instrucions (rare for me). In future I will add the hops (tea bag) to the dextrose and boil for 10 minutes. I only heat the can in boiling water to get all the contents out, then fill the can with hot water from the jug to get the last of the contents out. Does this sound good? What other hops can I use for a good taste. Mind you I do like Tooheys New, I have tried a few different beers lately and Crown Lager is good. Tried Stella Artois the other day and it tastes similar to Tohheys if you ask me. Corona is good with a piece of lime in the bottle. Help me taste "good" beer guys.

 

[manticle]

Try pilsner urquell if you can find it. Then, if you like it, try a pilsner urquell and a tooheys new next to each other BUT let each one warm up to about 10 degrees. Tell me which one is better.

Based on the tastes in commercial beer you have, hallertauer and saaz hops would also work for you. Depends a little on how you use them though.

 

[fasty73]

Where can I try pilsner urquell? The bottlo or home brew? I CANNOT drink a beer at 10 degrees!!! It's gotta be cold!!! How should I be using hops? You seem to have the best advice without being partial.

 

[pk.sax]

Dan Murphy's near your area

 

[drtomc]

Before you said you couldn't drink the beer out of the hydro jar. Now you say you can't drink beer at 10C.

If it's really cold, it doesn't matter all that much what beer you drink (within reason, anyway) - it numbs your taste. Once it's a bit warmer all the subtleties of the flavour and mouthfeel start coming out.

Trust us - try it and you won't be disappointed.

T.