Bohemian Pilsner fermenting temp recommendation.

[Stouter]

My first foray into a such a different style to what I'm used to. I'm feeling a little giddy. My FV fridge won't know whats going on.

I've bought a pre-measured out all-grain recipe as follows;
4.5kg WY Bohemian Pilsner,
0.45kg BR Dextrin,
0.3kg WY Vienna,
0.1kg WY Acidulated.

30g Saaz @ 60mins,
15g Saaz @15mins,
15g Saaz @5mins.

Mash temp at 66d.

Didn't want to commit to buying more ingredients in bulk until I have a practise run first.

I'm using MJ Bohemian yeast, and from what I've read a good temp schedule is -
10d primary,
3-5d secondary,
15d for 2 days.
Anyone with a few of these under their belt care to advise if this is looking right, mainly in regard to the temp, as that and the yeast are about all I can change right now?

 

[manticle]

Bit confused. Main ferment temp 10 (sounds ok, yeast manufacturer should have a suggested range). Then drop to 3-5, then raise again to 15?

I'd go the other way - 10, 15-18, then slowly back to 3-5, then drop to near zero.

 

[huez]

I was mid post but manticle beat me to it. You would want to 15-16 degrees after primary for a diacetyl rest and then lager close to zero

 

[Stouter]

Bit confused.

As was I, and why I posted.

Yours and huez's suggestions look like the right thing do go with.

 

[Stouter]

My original idea was based on this -
Fermentation:
Strict lager fermentation temperatures should be adhered to, with primary at about 50°F, secondary at 35 to 40°F, and a couple days late in fermentation at 60 to 65°F.

From here- https://learn.kegerator.com/bohemian-pilsner/

 

[manticle]

Yeah- confusingly laid out but basically primary, slightly warmer for d rest, then lager temps is what I would bet my testicles on.

 

[Stouter]

I'm guessing this will also involve transferring to a secondary receptacle for the temp raise, rather than my usual single FV effort?
Is it worth doing?

 

[manticle]

Temp raise in primary. Personally, I would transfer for the cold bits but some will tell you that you can do it all in one vessel.

That's true -you can, and being your beer, you can decide what works for you. For me -primary ferment and d-rest in one vessel, transfer and drop temp in another, keg and carbonate (or bottle) clear beer.

 

[Brewno Marz]

Done a few Bo pils. Probably one of the simpler all grain brews. Your malt bill is fine. I'd go 98% pils malt &, 2% something for head retention & colour. 13 deg C works better as less refrigeration & yeasties are happier. I know that there's a view that lagers and pilsners have to be fermented at <10deg north Europe celler temps, but that's because its stupidly cold there. As far as secondary goes, I have no idea. Don't get it & it's probably a waste of time and effort.

 

[peteru]

Tonight I tapped my Czech Dark Lager done with that MJ yeast. Fermentation was 5 days @ 13C, then dropped to 4C (adjusted the fridge down by 2C every 8 hours) and left at 4C for 20 days. All done in a single fermenter. Turned out nice and clean without any detectable fermentation issues. It's very much like a cross between Dark Velkopopovicky Kozel and Svijanska Knezna, not as roasty as Dark Budvar. I think the MJ yeast has produced a cleaner result than what I get from imported Kozel. When compared to Fermentis Saflager W-34/70, Mangrove Jack's M84 has produced none of the sulphur and seems to have slightly lower attenuation.

If you are fermenting using normal bucket fermenters, I would not bother using separate fermenting vessels for primary and secondary. The risk of damage due to oxygen exposure would be probably worse than having the beer on yeast for a couple of weeks. If you have a conical you can just dump the yeast when you are ready. If you have a kegmenter, then a closed system transfer to a purged lagering keg would be the go. I suppose you could ferment for 5 days in the bucket, then transfer to keg and lager in the keg. Just keep an eye on the pressure and keep it under 70kPa.

 

[Rocker1986]

I ferment mine at 10 for 5-6 days then raise to 18 until 14 days, then drop to 0 for two weeks. Works well, all done in the primary.

 

[rude]

That sounds good Rocker so a month all round
Do you just raise from 10 to 18 straight away & same for 18 to 0 or do it slowly over several days
Also pitching at 10 do you use o2
Sorry for questions never done a lager but am keen
I pressure ferment so I might be able to up temps & reduce times

 

[Rocker1986]

That sounds good Rocker so a month all round
Do you just raise from 10 to 18 straight away & same for 18 to 0 or do it slowly over several days
Also pitching at 10 do you use o2
Sorry for questions never done a lager but am keen
I pressure ferment so I might be able to up temps & reduce times

With the temp rise I turn the controller to 18 and just allow the beer to come up on its own inside the fridge. When I drop it to zero I just set it to zero, it usually takes a day or two to get down there.

I do use oxygen, I try to pitch at 10 or close to it, but it doesn't always work out.

 

[kaiserben]

I do same as what Rocker does. It turns out really well IMO, although I did get competition feedback on a German Pils that said judges perceived acetaldehyde and suggestions that I should have left it on the yeast for longer.

 

[Rocker1986]

I should note that this is all done in the primary. I don't transfer for the cold crash.

 

[kaiserben]

Same here.

 

[Stouter]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
I've decided to run with keeping it in a single fv for the duration, and will run a schedule similar to Kelsey and Kaiserben's.
Just waiting for the fridge to be freed up, the one I know can handle the temp drop and c/c.
Keen to report back on this one as it's the first one I've done and not something I usual drink, but friends and relatives will and be critical of.

 

[BrockHops]

How did this go?
I'm looking at doing something similar, as I've got;
*WLP802 Czech Budejovice Lager Yeast
*Crapload of Saaz
* A sack of Way Bo Pils
So going with Brewno Mars' suggestion of 98% pils and 2% something else ( Cara hell/aroma/Munich) for colour and head retention, I like the idea because it's simple.

 

[Stouter]

I'm pitching today. Been waiting for the fridge to free up and just put the cube in there yesterday to make sure it was down to 10d for today.

 

[Stouter]

What a $@&#en idiot.
Got everything ready to pitch. Temp down to 10d, rehydrated the yeast, oxy' the wort, poured it in, godspeed you little beauties. Walked back in to the kitchen to get the US05 ready for an Ale batch I'm also doing.....uh oh the bo pils yeast is sitting there.
Next question, what temp should I ferment my bo pils at with the US05?