Boags Recipe Tastes A Little Fruity. Help!

[daddywillwill]

hi all
this is my first post. so hey everyone.

I tried brewing a boags premium with a kit and extract. here is the recipe.
1 Black Rock Lager Kit
Brewcraft #60 German Lager Kit converter
500g of light dry malt extract
saflager yeast
23 litres

brewed at a constant 15 deg celcius for 2 weeks. just be sure.
OG 1050, FG 1010 (stable for 3 days).
bottled and 2 weeks later tested.
a little carbonated (still too new), and with a fruity type aroma and taste. any idea on what could have caused the fruity taste and smell? :unsure:
also my last few brews had tasted a little fruity but i think that was cause no one told me not to use brewing sugar and to use dextrose instead.

thanks
willis

 

[Adamt]

You should have fermented closer to 10C, as Saflager is a lager yeast. The temperature being higher than the "optimal" temperature for the strain will give you this fruitiness.

 

[rclemmett]

I have found s-23 to throw up some fruity aromas even if brewed at 12C.

Quote from fermentis site

Saflager S-23 Originating from the famous VLB institute in Germany, true lager yeast capable of producing continental lagers with a fruity, estery note.

 

[daddywillwill]

You should have fermented closer to 10C, as Saflager is a lager yeast. The temperature being higher than the "optimal" temperature for the strain will give you this fruitiness.

ok sweet. i'll try soon. so below 10 or around 10? and would 2 weeks be fine 'first fermentation'?
thanks

 

[Adamt]

Around 10, not too far below or it may go dormant. If you have a secondary fermenter to rack to, give it 2 weeks in primary and rack (providing the SG has dropped most of the way to the estimated FG) for another couple of weeks. Lagers take patience and control, which is why I brew ales

 

[razE]

I would personally have a look at the wyeast range of lager yeasts ^^

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/default.asp?CID=52

 

[shayne]

I have a boags premium down at the moment, it seems to be not doing much.....

the recipe is:

1xWals Pure Blonde 1.7kg
1x1kg Body Brew - 600g Dextrose + 400g Mal.
500g Light Booster - 250g Light Dry Malt Extract+250g Mal
2x12g Tettnanger Finishing Hop (Infusion Method) - 5.5 alpha

i have formed the habit of dissolving the sugars/malt in the can with hot-water. with this one it resulted in the 'light booster' going honeycomb like and took an age to dissolve. it's been brewing at ~24 for 10 days but still at 1.020 and doesn't seem to be moving. it's still really really cloudy and sweet when i take a sample out. the yeast was an ale yeast that came with the can from the LHBS.

is it possible there is too much sugars? I'm only making about 18L, the LHBS told me it will just make the beer stronger by using less water, but is there any difference to fermentation time?

i made a draught a couple of weeks back also in 18L and it's still sweet and not properly carbonated either (i'm going to give it another couple of weeks in the bottle). i'm worried that this premium boags won't go anywhere now. all our other brews have been successful.

both shops tell me that it should be done in a week ('it' being a general ale ferment) but on this site everyone seems to be leaving it for 2 weeks (some in fridges, some not) - some longer.

 

[donburke]

daddywillwill,

i did the exact same recipe, and was fermented at 11 degrees.
the taste has improved over time, but the fruityness has remained.
it is a nice drop, but i over carbonated mine a little.
from what i read, the fruitiness comes from the s-23 even, even if fermented at lower temps.

the current lager i'm fermenting is with w34/70, which i am trying for the first time

 

[thunderchild]

A lot of the sweetness is from the malt and fermentables. Once you carbonate it should balance a lot of that out. Good on you for tasting it during the process. You will soon know what it should taste like.

If you can ferment cooler next time it might help take some fruitiness out.

TC

 

[chappo1970]

Shayne I suspect that the yeast wasn't the healthiest or you have an infection in your gear but first need to know a few things to ascertain if the yeasties haven't made it.

1. Ok firstly how long has it been since the hydro last dropped?
2. The kit yeast did you rehydrate or just chuck it in?
3. Type of yeasties if known
4. The flat sweet draught does it have a funky taste (Medicinal)

10 days is a bit long IMO but not impossible especially at 24C and it being a kit yeast. The sweetness is caused by the unfermented sugars in your brew so if it has stalled you can consider re-pitching some yeast but you might be best checking to see if you have an infection in your brew. Besides sweet does it taste funkier than normal?

Ok don't panic yet post up what you find.

 

[Bribie G]

I have been making a commercial type 'clone' for a while now, modelled on Melbourne Bitter, and normally use Nottingham Ale yeast that produces a very nice 'fake lager' if kept below 16 degrees. A couple of brews ago all I had left was one PET bottle of Nottingham that I had saved from a previous brew, and on giving it the sniff test it had gone off in the fridge and smelt very funky so I chucked it.

Inspecting the yeast shelf in the fridge door all I could come up with was a few Coopers yeasts I keep for ginger beer and BINGO... a Saflager S-23 that I had ordered too late in the previous season and I was saving for use next winter in a lager.

I used that instead, but did it at around 16 to 18 as I had to get it through fairly quickly and into cold conditioning due to my Sydney trip. It turned out quite different to previous brews and although very drinkable it has a real citrusy fruity flavour, almost lime infused. Next brew I went back to my regular yeast and it's nice and malty/hoppy without the fruit overtones.

When I first started brewing I thought that all the comments on AHB about the different yeasts were a w&nkfest but, boy, have I learned differently :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[shayne]

Shayne I suspect that the yeast wasn't the healthiest or you have an infection in your gear but first need to know a few things to ascertain if the yeasties haven't made it.

1. Ok firstly how long has it been since the hydro last dropped?
2. The kit yeast did you rehydrate or just chuck it in?
3. Type of yeasties if known
4. The flat sweet draught does it have a funky taste (Medicinal)

10 days is a bit long IMO but not impossible especially at 24C and it being a kit yeast. The sweetness is caused by the unfermented sugars in your brew so if it has stalled you can consider re-pitching some yeast but you might be best checking to see if you have an infection in your brew. Besides sweet does it taste funkier than normal?

1. don't know, wasn't checking it daily but i would say a week now
2. i chucked it in and stirred - that's what it said on the can, usually i sprinkle on top
3. can't say, what came with the can which is an ale
4. can't remember, but i will check this on the next try in a week or so

what's the best way to check for infection? i can't see through the lid... it doesn't smell off or anything.

i've read about guys putting a few grains of yeast in the bottle - would this be recommended (PET), and could I use any yeast or would i have to use the same yeast (also if i was going to pitch some more)?

 

[citizensnips]

I have been making a commercial type 'clone' for a while now, modelled on Melbourne Bitter, and normally use Nottingham Ale yeast that produces a very nice 'fake lager' if kept below 16 degrees. A couple of brews ago all I had left was one PET bottle of Nottingham that I had saved from a previous brew, and on giving it the sniff test it had gone off in the fridge and smelt very funky so I chucked it.

Inspecting the yeast shelf in the fridge door all I could come up with was a few Coopers yeasts I keep for ginger beer and BINGO... a Saflager S-23 that I had ordered too late in the previous season and I was saving for use next winter in a lager.

I used that instead, but did it at around 16 to 18 as I had to get it through fairly quickly and into cold conditioning due to my Sydney trip. It turned out quite different to previous brews and although very drinkable it has a real citrusy fruity flavour, almost lime infused. Next brew I went back to my regular yeast and it's nice and malty/hoppy without the fruit overtones.

When I first started brewing I thought that all the comments on AHB about the different yeasts were a w&nkfest but, boy, have I learned differently :lol: :lol: :lol:

BribieG could you please post that melbourne bitter recipe as it is my favourite megaswill and if you recon its worthy and you have brewed it a few times i'd love to give it a go.

Cheers
eddy

 

[rclemmett]

I have a boags premium down at the moment, it seems to be not doing much.....

the recipe is:

1xWals Pure Blonde 1.7kg
1x1kg Body Brew - 600g Dextrose + 400g Mal.
500g Light Booster - 250g Light Dry Malt Extract+250g Mal
2x12g Tettnanger Finishing Hop (Infusion Method) - 5.5 alpha

i have formed the habit of dissolving the sugars/malt in the can with hot-water. with this one it resulted in the 'light booster' going honeycomb like and took an age to dissolve. it's been brewing at ~24 for 10 days but still at 1.020 and doesn't seem to be moving. it's still really really cloudy and sweet when i take a sample out. the yeast was an ale yeast that came with the can from the LHBS.

is it possible there is too much sugars? I'm only making about 18L, the LHBS told me it will just make the beer stronger by using less water, but is there any difference to fermentation time?

i made a draught a couple of weeks back also in 18L and it's still sweet and not properly carbonated either (i'm going to give it another couple of weeks in the bottle). i'm worried that this premium boags won't go anywhere now. all our other brews have been successful.

both shops tell me that it should be done in a week ('it' being a general ale ferment) but on this site everyone seems to be leaving it for 2 weeks (some in fridges, some not) - some longer.

I get a FG of 1023 with those fermentables mixed to 18L. I don't think you needed all that maltodextrin.

How long has the "draught" been in the bottle for? I would guess not long enough to carb up properly. Also, if you used similar ingredients to the boags premium it will be very sweet due to unfermentable sugars.

Which country brewer did you buy your kit from?

 

[chappo1970]

I get a FG of 1023 with those fermentables mixed to 18L. I don't think you needed all that maltodextrin.

Yep I agree with Rob2 looks like your there on the money Shayne. I didn't see the 18lt bit, sorry mate. I got FG 1021 but who counting?
Well you don't have an infection but you will have a good brew. I found that leaving the brew sit for a couple of extra days on the trub after FG was reached really helped the beer along.

No offence Shayne but you need to keep good records and measurments if you want to really improve your brewing. I keep brew cards on every brew not just so I can make it again but when I have a problem I can easily tell the guys here what I did and when I did it.

Anyway if you haven't already done so buy John Palmers book "how to brew" here's a http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/index.html to the free online version (it's just a little out of date that is why it's free).

Many happy brews.

 

[rclemmett]

Yep I agree with Rob2 looks like your there on the money Shayne. I didn't see the 18lt bit, sorry mate. I got FG 1021 but who counting?
Well you don't have an infection but you will have a good brew. I found that leaving the brew sit for a couple of extra days on the trub after FG was reached really helped the beer along.

No offence Shayne but you need to keep good records and measurments if you want to really improve your brewing. I keep brew cards on every brew not just so I can make it again but when I have a problem I can easily tell the guys here what I did and when I did it.

Anyway if you haven't already done so buy John Palmers book "how to brew" here's a http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/index.html to the free online version (it's just a little out of date that is why it's free).

Many happy brews.

h34r: I don't have software so I usually estimate by my notes. If you keep good records you can get pretty close. However, on this occasion I used the brewcraft calculator. But thats just between me and you Chappo.

http://www.brewcraft.com.au/wa.asp?idWebPa...p;idDetails=172

 

[chappo1970]

pssst... I used IanH's spreadsheet. It's da bomb... :lol:
I'm not allowed to install/use beersmith at work.

 

[shayne]

Well you don't have an infection but you will have a good brew....

No offence Shayne but you need to keep good records and measurments if you want to really improve your brewing. I keep brew cards on every brew not just so I can make it again but when I have a problem I can easily tell the guys here what I did and when I did it.

Thanks all, i'm guessing that line meant 'you will NOT have a good brew'....

OK, so I'm a little confused about how the FG is determined and what actually happens. I obviously have more to read on the subject... i keep records but don't understand why yeast would or wouldn't eat everything in the tub - i guess the advice that making a smaller batch (less water) will just make stronger beer isn't quite all there is to it, and it actually means you're left over with sugars... that you will taste (eek). i'm going to have to find some 18L recipes that suit those fermenters rather than just dropping the water content down on a 23L recipe.

As for the Boag, it seemed to get stuck at 1.020 so I bottled it. the day after i found my PET bottles absolutely busting tight. even the caps were showing a bulge so i had to release some CO2 on all of them (a few times in fact over a few days) to avoid explosions.

I don't hold much hope for the flavour of either beers but will wait for a month or so before popping them. any suggestions what to do should they turn out too sweet? could i 'water them down' with soda water when i drink them? i don't like tipping stuff down the sink....

 

[shayne]

pssst... I used IanH's spreadsheet. It's da bomb... :lol:
I'm not allowed to install/use beersmith at work.

thanks for the tip. i just downloaded it....

 

[seemax]

The batch size doesn't really effect the yeasts ability to consume fermentables, it will only effect the final ABV%.

Each strain of yeast has different attentuation %, which is an indication of it's ability to consume fermentables.

The FG tells you how many of the fermentables remain once fermentation has stopped. The higher the number, the heavier the beer, and the more fermentables remain in suspension. As a result the beer will be sweeter. A very low FG , say 1.005, will be quite dry and appear to have less body and residual sweetness... eg coopers pale ale.

eg. your yeast claims 75% attenuation, a brew of OG 1.040 should ferment out to 1.010... this is actually apparent, not real attentuation due to the SG of alcohol, blah, don't worry yourself about it !