Birko Boil

[bttjn]

I've got a new 40l Birko urn which I'm using for BIAB. Doing a test run just with water to calculate evaporation rates and the boil isn't as vigourous as I expected with the lid off. It's boiling but not what I'd consider to be a rolling boil.
If I put the lid on it really gets boiling then.
I have the urn wrapped in a camping mat and it's in the house ( no breeze and the air temp is about 18'c)
Do others here boil with the lid on to get a rolling boil or with it off. Or does in really not matter too much

 

[brando]

I can't say that I've boiled water in mine, just wort.

But I find when I set the dial on 110 degrees, I get what I would call a vigourous boil, and that's with the urn pretty full (say 35 litres), without any coverings (i.e no camping mat, or towels, etc), and in the winter (say 18 degrees here in Bris).

 

[boobiedazzler]

I get a rolling boil on the Birko, not what I would call a cazy, jumping out of the kettle boil, but very adequate. I generally leave the lid on for about 10 minutes after mash-out to get it up to temps quicker. After that the lid stays off to allow for escapiing evaporation

Using a rough calculation I detemined that 1cm=1litre, which is great because I can use a steel ruler to measure progress. and the performance, according to my brew notes, is generally as follows:

Starting volume 32cm
Pre-Boil volume 28cm
Post-Boil volume 23/24cm

That evaporation rate is based on a 90 minute boil, timed from the start of the boil with the lid off, and outdoors with temps of about 20 degrees.

Your results may vary, I'm only posting my Birko experiences so that they may or may not give you a general guide on what to expect. Do not take them as gospel.

 

[manticle]

I've got a new 40l Birko urn which I'm using for BIAB. Doing a test run just with water to calculate evaporation rates and the boil isn't as vigourous as I expected with the lid off. It's boiling but not what I'd consider to be a rolling boil.
If I put the lid on it really gets boiling then.
I have the urn wrapped in a camping mat and it's in the house ( no breeze and the air temp is about 18'c)
Do others here boil with the lid on to get a rolling boil or with it off. Or does in really not matter too much

I'm not a BIABer and don't use an urn but I assume the principle is exactly the same as for other full mash boils. You need to boil wort with the lid off to let certain volatiles (particularly SMM) escape. I always bring my wort to the boil with the lid on then remove it once the wort is boiling
.

A rolling boil doesn't have to be nuts vigorous - just constant and more than a simmer.

 

[Bribie G]

I've got a new 40l Birko urn which I'm using for BIAB. Doing a test run just with water to calculate evaporation rates and the boil isn't as vigourous as I expected with the lid off. It's boiling but not what I'd consider to be a rolling boil.
If I put the lid on it really gets boiling then.
I have the urn wrapped in a camping mat and it's in the house ( no breeze and the air temp is about 18'c)
Do others here boil with the lid on to get a rolling boil or with it off. Or does in really not matter too much

You'll find that the boil with wort is a lot more spectacular than the boil with plain water as there are far more nucleation points for the steam. Birko dial goes up to 110, mine sits permanently on around 97. At recent brew day, gas guys were impressed with the boil.

 

[boobiedazzler]

BribieG is there a particular reason you dial it back from 110 ? For me the max temp feels like the bare minimum, adequate as it is. Next brew on Sunday, I'm going to dial it back a bit, and see if it holds. Although I think I might have tried that before. That is with an outdoor winter situation and also a different build generation to yours. The photo in your top thread shows an element that is a very different shape to the one installed in my Birko. Potentially, there may be slight difference in their performance. Better or worse, I don't know. The target market for Birko & Crown isn't the homebrewer's hard earned, it's to keep water very hot in a convenient public place like the tea and coffe stand at your kid's soccer game, the tuckshop or the local parish bridge night.

It would be interesting to take Bribie's Birko build and my Birko build into the same brewing environment, put them both through their paces with identical recipes, volumes, outside temps side by side, and observe if theres a difference.

 

[bttjn]

Thanks for the comments. It all makes a bit more sense now. I got about 4l/hour evaporation with the lid off. Expect to see a bit more vigourous action with wort rather than water. I think my birko is one of the newer ones with the square element rather than the old style round one.

 

[boobiedazzler]

A square element ? Mine's different again. More like two rectangular shapes with rounded tops. Don't know if there's a term for the element shapes I try to describe, maybe a truncated, obtuse rectangle?

So this is weird. Sounds like you just got yours bttjn, if you say newer ones. How long ago? I got mine only a couple of months, three at most, ago. And it doesn't have a square element or a round spiral element like the other guys photo. How old is the spiral element Birko ?

 

[boobiedazzler]

I got about 4l/hour evaporation with the lid off. Expect to see a bit more vigourous action with wort rather than water.

And I get about 4l/90 minutes with wort. Its a close enough comparison if you consider the variables. Were you testing the device with water indoors or outdoors?

 

[Bribie G]

BribieG is there a particular reason you dial it back from 110 ? For me the max temp feels like the bare minimum, adequate as it is. Next brew on Sunday, I'm going to dial it back a bit, and see if it holds. Although I think I might have tried that before. That is with an outdoor winter situation and also a different build generation to yours. The photo in your top thread shows an element that is a very different shape to the one installed in my Birko. Potentially, there may be slight difference in their performance. Better or worse, I don't know. The target market for Birko & Crown isn't the homebrewer's hard earned, it's to keep water very hot in a convenient public place like the tea and coffe stand at your kid's soccer game, the tuckshop or the local parish bridge night.

It would be interesting to take Bribie's Birko build and my Birko build into the same brewing environment, put them both through their paces with identical recipes, volumes, outside temps side by side, and observe if theres a difference.

Here's my element:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/uplo...68993_thumb.jpg

The two pipes on the side are thermostat sensors. I bought it November 2008 so would guess mine was built two to three years ago? On 110 it's definitely fierce. I'm buying a second urn on Saturday but I'm getting the Crown exposed element for my 2 urn double batch setup so I'll be interested to see what its guts look like and how the Crownie compares.

I'm calling my new system the "Urny-Nator" and will put up a thread when I do my first brew day. I was going to call it the "Urninator" but if you read that too quickly you might think I'm taking the piss

 

[bttjn]

Tested it indoors boobiedazzler. Probably could have described the element a bit better. It's only a week old and has two rectangular elements with rounded ends so it sounds like it is the same as yours. Thanks for your help.