Big Head Using Coil!

[pwmc1967]

I was told that when running your pipe from a keg to the tap that the shorter the distance the better as a long pipe creates a large head on your beer. Is this the case??

If so, wouldn't 100ft (38mts) of coil generate a glass of pure head/froth?

And if so, surely a 8 x 12inch (200 x 300mm) cold plate with minimal pipe be the better option

And what should the dimentions of the box be ??

I gotta have this thing up and running by Easter so any advice would be greatly welcome

Cheers

 

[newguy]

You have to factor the length of the coil into your 'balance' equation. The idea is that all beer line has a certain "pressure drop" per meter. The trick is to factor things just right so that the total pressure drop of your line = the regulator pressure applied to the keg. You also have to take into account any rises (ie keg in basement, tap upstairs). When you get it right, there shouldn't be any foaming at all, even with the coil or coldplate taken into account. It's also important not to mix beer lines with different inside diameters, as these discontinuities will cause foaming.

Do a search for balancing a keg system and you'll find a lot of helpful posts.

 

[pwmc1967]

Thanks for that,

So in summary,
1. Just find the right pressure from the CO2
2. Use the same inside diameter of pipe throughout the system

Thank for the tip and i'll do a search on balancing.

Hopefully i'll get it right first up!

 

[newguy]

I'm sorry I didn't include this link earlier: AHB wiki: balancing a draught system.

I hope someone more knowledgeable than I chimes in regarding mixing lines with different diameters......I'm know that it will cause foaming, but it may be relatively minor. I've had issues with it, though.

 

[MHB]

A "Magic Box" works because there is a huge pressure drop across the plate; the plate has something like 6 meters of thin (~4mm I.D) stainless steel pipe cast into it.
That allows you to keep a high enough pressure on the warm beer that it maintains the right level of carbonation and to still have the beer at the tap flowing at a low enough rate to be manageable.

I have a couple of Magic Boxes I hire out - they go out with a locked regulator - because there is always someone that wants to "Improve the Flow" - the regs are locked at 200 kPa.

Believe me its a lot easier to buy a plate than it is to make a coil that works, but if you want to make one the two factors that you really need to watch are:-

Have enough pressure drop across the system to allow you to keep the beer conditioned.
Have enough pressure drop across the system to keep the flow rate at the tap manageable.

I calibrate mine to a flow rate of 1 Litre in 10 seconds which requires 200 kPa.

MHB

 

[pwmc1967]

Remembering that i am very green.

Ok, i assumed that a "Plate" was essentially just a hollow plate.

It appears that i am recieving misinformation from other sources.

From what i understand, it seems you want to have a long pipe system to cause a lowering of pressure resulting in better conditioning and flow rate and decent carbonation.

Do i have this right?

And with this way of thinking wouldn't you want to increase the hose/pipes ID from the keg to the tap (or increase it inside the plate), which would also result in a drop in pressure?

 

[newguy]

It's actually a pretty complex issue, come to think of it. If the beer encounters a section of tubing with a larger or increasing ID, then CO2 will come out of solution, causing foaming. If carbonated beer encounters a drop in pressure, then some of the CO2 dissolved in the beer will come out of solution. Flowing into a larger diameter hose from a smaller one will do just that - decrease the pressure "holding in" the CO2. It will also cause eddy currents (turbulent flow in general), and that turbulence will also tend to rip CO2 out of solution. Another issue is temperature. The lower the temperature of water (and beer is mostly water), the more CO2 it can hold. In other words, the lower the temperature of the beer, the easier it is to dissolve CO2 in it. So to carbonate cold beer takes a lower CO2 pressure than to carbonate warm beer to the same level of carbonation.

You have your warm beer in the keg, which needs a rather high regulator pressure to ensure that the beer stays carbonated. The trick is to come up with just enough combined beer line to completely "drop" this pressure while still allowing a reasonable flow rate.

 

[pwmc1967]

Bloody Hell !

I just want my home brew tapped when i go camping. LOL

Ok, so, keep the pipe ID the same all the way through but a significant lenght of tube/pipe in order to mildly drop the pressure without effecting the CO2 absorbtion in the water of the beer too drastically, yet still allowing resonable carbonation and a flow rate that doesn't blast a hole in the bottom of the glass when pouring. (as the keg will be ambient atmospheric temp in the shade and will require higher pressure of CO2)

Right, i think i have it

Anything else??

Anybody ??? LOL

 

[tangent]

there's so many variables involved with pouring a good draught beer. what works for you at home may not work out in the bush camping.
it's still best to keep your keg as cold as possible. a 19L corny keg fits into a 20L mayo bucket with room for about 1 bag of ice around it. if you then run it through 10m of line through the ice, you should have a cold beer and enough resistance to keep the beer carbed and slow flowing.

 

[domonsura]

I dunno about you lot, but when I took a keg to a BBQ on New Years eve, I just chilled my keg down real cold, wrapped it up tight in bubble wrap, and dispensed with a bronco tap on the end of 1.5 metres of 6mm beer line..........worked fine with a minimum of froth, and was still cold at 3 the next morning after a whole night in 38 degree heat............(I was quite suprised actually....but then I was too pissed to care :lol: )

 

[dengeez]

Im with you on that one Domonsura :icon_drunk:

 

[Zwickel]

Im just considering why someone wanna uses 100ft (38m) beer line at BBQ :huh:

For BBQ one would need a few meters only, then the pressure drop wouldnt play a role.

But if someone really wanna use a 100ft beer line, it would be recommended to use either a gas mix (Co2 and Nitrogen) or a mechanical beer pump to avoid over carbonating the beer.

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

linky

Post 426...

I've had coil set ups and they work OK , but this was the best by far ... 1 keg is never enough when camping. with a soda streem gas you could get 3 kegs in the wheely bin..sit it on the trailer or in the back of the ute and away you go..

good luck with it...

cheers

 

[pwmc1967]

Thanks for all the feedback guys,

I guess that a shorter line would suffice sufficiently if i could keep the keg refrigerated but i just dont have that option, this year anyway.
It would seem that with an ambient temp keg i need the long coil to increase the surface area ie more surface area the cold the beer will be and hope i can get it all balanced and working befor we head off.

Just for the record this isn't just a BBQ, this is a full on camping. i will bring back pics...... you wont believe what we setup.

Anyway, keep those comments, ideas and suggestions coming, i need all the help i can get

 

[cdbrown]

It would seem that the best option is to get the kegs as cold as possible prior to going camping. Then wrap the babies up in some insulation so they retain the chill and then you won't need a huge amount of beer line to cool. Having a few metres of beer line in an esky full of ice will ensure the beer is nice and cold out the tap even if the keg temp rises. Take a look at the updated calculator crozdog produced which is on the 2nd page of the wiki link. Anything less than the length recommended and it will either pour too quickly or CO2 will come out. Of course longer will mean slower pours.

Have fun camping!