BIAB Weissbier (more banana, light colour)

[Hez]

Yesterday I finally open one of these after a proper conditioning. I had open a couple of them before and they were ok but... bland and... a little sour! is that normal? Yesterday's was way better. It had more body and taste. I also tried to pour it german-style to get more head and recover some of the "turb" from the bottom of the bottle.

Nevertheless... I miss the orange color and a little of the "subtle malty taste" of the original weissbier, next time I think I will go with:

OPTION 1:
- 1300g wheat malt (60%)
- 640g pilsner (~40%)
- 220g light cara munich (~10%)

SRM: 6.92
EBC: 13.63

OPTION 2:
- 1420g light wheat malt (65%)
- 530g light munich (base) (25%)
- 210g light cara munich (10%)

SRM: 7.62
EBC: 15.02

Still on the range (light coloured weissbier should be < 20EBC) but I think it would have that color and taste this one is missing.



To make it more balanced (according to the barumagazine article) I will change the mash schedule too:

35ºC Mash in temp.
45°C rest: 15 min
55°C protein rest: 5 min
63°C maltose rest: 45 min
72°C saccharification rest: 30 min
72ºC sparge

I will take into account the dextrose added into the boil and ditch the 1/2 tablet of deltafloc. I want it to be even more cloudy!


About the carbonation I did it with dextrose instead of table sugar and up to 3vol. CO2 and I can tell the bottles I used weren't even near their maximum capacity. Next time I will do at least 3.4vol and I will use table sugar instead, I think it's easier and there isn't much difference.

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

Here's the recipe I just did, bottled (primed with DME for 3.5 vols CO2) on Sunday and it tasted pretty good already although it does not have that orange hue, probably munich malt instead of vienna would help with that.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/443258/cheapo-wheat

I don't think you need a crystal malt in a wheat beer as the wheat proteins support head retention very well and the mash schedule creates enough unfermentable sugars for the taste. It wont be opened until October so it will be fully developed by then.

 

[Adr_0]

I would think that if one bottle had a great taste and full(ish) body, and this one has a lot of flavour stripped out and is sour then this bottle is infected.

I'm against - like most of the crowd - putting crystal in a wheat beer because you really don't want any sweetness, which will leap out of the beer with such little hopping. A little dark wheat (Weyermann) or Munich to an EBC of about 12-15 will do the job with the very slightest touch of chocolate. An example would be 50% pils (Bohemian), 30% pale wheat, 20% dark wheat and a sprinkling of Carafa sp 1.

 

[MHB]

Don't forget there is CaraWheat and Roast / Chocolate Wheat, CarraWheat is great for adding a touch of colour and keeping within the wheat flavor spectrum.
Mark

 

[Lionman]

Had a nice weizenbier on the weekend at Homestead Brewery in the Swan Valley. Apparently award winning? I enjoyed it.

 

[Hez]

After having tasted the more-banana version, I've realized the good ones have less banana jejeje so, now I want to do a balanced one (again I should have listened to you from the beginning).

The water, the hops, the mash schedule, the carbonation, the yeast... I have everything decided and ready (I know how to calculate the proportions if I change the quantity of grain, no problem), the only missing thing is deciding on the grain!

The two options I put in my previous post it was me reading the braumagazine article: http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/
Why do you say crystal? I put light cara munich, not crystal, is it the same? I didn't know...

From the article:
"LIGHT COLORED WEIZEN BEER
OG: 1.046 - 1.057
IBU: 9-14
Color: <20 EBC
Base Malts: Light wheat malt, Pilsner / Vienna, Munich (<30%)
Speciality Malts: 3-10% light Cara malt, <2% dark Cara malt, <0,5% roasted malt"

This is the color I want (and with the color comes the flavour too):
https://schneider-weisse.de/en/node/12

I've looked around for a Schneider-Weisse Tap 7 clone and I've found every suposed clone has a different recipe. Some use Halletauer, others tettnanger, others saaz, some pilsner, others raw barley, cara munich, melanoiden, roasted...

Lets see some of them:

Version 1: http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=41007&st=15
48.3 9.00 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2
21.5 4.00 lbs. Dingeman's Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
21.5 4.00 lbs. Weyermann Lt. Munich Malt Germany 1.038 6
5.4 1.00 lbs. Caramel Wheat Malt Germany 1.036 46
2.7 0.50 lbs. Weyermann Melanoidin Malt Germany 1.037 27
0.7 0.13 lbs. Chocolate Wheat Germany 1.033 400

Version 2: http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/the-beer-board/(review)-schneider-weisse-tap-7/
2.5kg of wheat
1.65kg of barley
50g of roasted malt

Version 3: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/560150/schneider-weisse-tap-7-clon
6 lbs 9.82 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1
4 lbs 6.55 oz Barley, Raw (2.0 SRM) Grain 2
1 lbs 1.64 oz Caramel Wheat Malt (46.0 SRM) Grain 3

Version 4: https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/schneider-weisse-tap-7-clone
6.0 lb White Wheat Rahr Mash 41 2 °L
4.5 lb Pilsner Rahr Mash 37 1 °L
0.19 lb CARAFA® III Weyermann® Mash 32 525 °L

Version 5: (lost the link, sorry)
Wheat Malt-- 8 lbs
German Munich-- 6 lbs
Crystal 120L-- 12 OZ.
Chocolate 350L-- 4 OZ.

Version 6: https://beerrecipes.org/Recipe/9117/german-schneider-tap-5-clone.html (this is for tap 5, the bock, but the idea is the similar)
8 lbs 13.1 oz - Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) (Grain)
7 lbs 11.5 oz - Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) (Grain)
2 lbs 3.3 oz - Melanoidin (Weyermann) (30.0 SRM) (Grain)

Versions 7 and 8: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29252
48.2 4.27 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 82.23 4
1.0 0.09 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special III Germany 64.92 1300
50.8 4.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 82.23 4

Wheat Malt 3.5 EBC 6 lbs. 12.1 oz 3070 grams 55.1%
Lager Malt 2.5 EBC 5 lbs. 5.9 oz 2440 grams 43.8%
Carafa Special III 1200 EBC 0 lbs. 2.1 oz 60 grams 1.1%


:S:S:S:S:S

The only grain I have decided is:

60% light wheat malt

for around 12-15EBC (https://www.brewersfriend.com/srm-calculator/) what do I use for the other 40% ??? pilsner or munich (base) with something dark? what something dark? cara munich, melanoiden, roasted wheat, carafa, carawheat?

I found this article about the grain, I think it's worth a read: https://byo.com/mead/item/710-grain-on-the-brain But still... now I have more doubts! :S

 

[Adr_0]

Geez, that's a lot of recipes. Caramunich is basically a crystal malt though is not a standard off the shelf crystal. Still, IMO it will impart too much sweetness.

The national homebrew club grain bill is the closest to Schneider Weisse as I understand. Quoting from Stan Heironymous' wheat book as well, which says they use only a touch of chocolate. So an example recipe might be (targetting 1.050-1.052 OG):
3kg Weyermann pale wheat
2kg Weyermann Bohemian pils
60g Weyermann chocolate wheat

On second thoughts, 12-15EBC may be a touch light and I think around 17-18EBC is what you want to target which the above should reflect.

I've suggested Bohemian pils to give some grainy maltiness that you may be missing, but you can 'just' use premium pils if you wish.

Another example would be the same as above but balancing the colour over cara-wheat and choc wheat:
3kg Weyermann pale wheat
2kg Weyermann Bohemian pils
150g Weyermann cara-wheat
40g Weyermann chocolate wheat

 

[MHB]

Remember that the Banana will fade fairly quickly, it is one of the least stable beer flavours known.
Choice of yeast will have a big impact on the balance, for instance in the same wort the Weihenstephan throws a lot more banana than does the Schneider.
You are still very much a learner - so keep it simple, make a basic wheat based wort and play around with yeast, pitching rates, fermentation temperatures... until you get the beer you want.
Mark

 

[Adr_0]

Yeah I was going to say, your banana will fade so consider this. If you're going to drink every bottle within the first month then perhaps knock the banana back, but past that it will come into balance and be quite nice past that.

 

[Hez]

Remember that the Banana will fade fairly quickly, it is one of the least stable beer flavours known.
Choice of yeast will have a big impact on the balance, for instance in the same wort the Weihenstephan throws a lot more banana than does the Schneider.
You are still very much a learner - so keep it simple, make a basic wheat based wort and play around with yeast, pitching rates, fermentation temperatures... until you get the beer you want.
Mark

Yeah I was going to say, your banana will fade so consider this. If you're going to drink every bottle within the first month then perhaps knock the banana back, but past that it will come into balance and be quite nice past that.

Yes, I'm a learner and always will!
From the ~30 bottles I made there must be like 10 left or so... so no chance of loosing the banana Until my belgian witbier is ready to drink I will have to buy some more jejeje

My supplier only has wheat malt, roasted wheat or torrified wheat, no caramel wheat
But chocolate wheat = roasted wheat, isn't it?
I think I got it!

For 10L batch (+1L trub)
65% efficiency

1650g wheat malt (~60%)
1100g pilsner (~40%)
32g roasted wheat (~1%)
2782g total

SRM: 9.13
EBC:17.99

Estimated Pre Boil OG: 1.032
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.052
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.015
Estimated Alcohol By Volume: 4.92%
(it will be a little more alcoholic for sure, last time my FG was 1.010)

Tettnanger 1.7% alpha 32.63g (I like it, and still have left enough for another batch)
15IBU

Hefeweizen Ale Yeast WLP300 72-76% Low 68-72 °F Medium

How does it sound? I think is within the ranges of the style according to the famous braumagazin article.

My witbier/blanche/belgian style wheat beer will be ready in 2 weeks and a half so I'll brew this one then.

About the temperatures, Mark, unfortunately it's not under my control. Just the pitching temp (chilling the wort). I don't have any way of controling it after that. All I can do is moving the fermenter inside my appartment to a colder/warmer part. I don't see how could I insulate the fermenter and keep a constant temperature with esky blocks or something like that...
When I go back home I'm sure I'm going to buy a small fridge and put a temp controler, but not in here... I simply don't have the time and space and no way I will be able to bring any of this stuff back home (Madrid, Spain), it will be cheaper to buy it again than shipping it. As you said before, I'm learning here and while I learn I try to make drinkable beer!


OFFTOPIC:
By the way, if you want to try the most popular beer from Madrid, Aldi is selling it right now in Sydney. 9.9$ the 6 pack. It's called: "Mahou", it's something like pilsner, not very hoppy and a little more malty. I believe they put some corn into it, don't know for sure and don't know why, that's what I've heard.
It's served more or less Czech style with a layer of thick foam on top in 20cl glasses ("cañas"). I was a waiter when I was studying in uni and I went to a beer serving contest. You are suposed to:
- Open the tap completely and discard the remaining foam from the previous one
- Put the glass under the stream of fresh beer at exactly 45º with the end of the tap very close to the bottom without touching it and lowering the glass as the beer raises to avoid the tap to be under the beer level at any time.
- When the glass is almost full, close the tap and put the glass under it vertically
- Open half way the tap to fill with thick foam the remaining part of the glass
You know it's ok when you drink the beer, every sip must produce a ring of foam into the empty part of the glass.
You start with 100 point and they remove point for every degree, mm, etc. off, it's crazy. I thought I was very good, and turned out I was below average... :S

(the good one is the one on the right)

The idea of the "cañas" and why they are so small is that you don't want your beer to become warm and/or flat, so you have to go to the bar where the waiter is fast, one "caña" last seconds! Lazy waiter = ****** "cañas".
With every caña you get a really small plate with something to eat for free, that's a "tapa". When you go to have some "cañas" with your friends you usually end up having 10-15 of them (2-3L) before being totally full of beer and food. And they cost 1.2-1.5€ each (1€=1.49$AUD) Oh! I really miss it!
If you don't care or it's not summer you can also ask for a "doble" (33cl cup) or a "jarra" (0.5L mug) and if you are in a dancing-pub, concert or a party you ask for a "tercio" (33cl bottle) or a "mini" which is a plastic glass around 0.75L, not very elegant, but it gets the job done

 

[Droopy Brew]

MAte you have a lot of recipes there and I cant help but think you will confuse yourself.

Do yourself a favour and brew this from our very own Les the weizguy: https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/recipedb-schneider-weisse-style.20713/

I have brewed it multiple times and it is bloody amazing. It is fairly simple. If you can do the suggeste temp steps it is better but if not then a 66C mash will still produce an excellent beer.

Ferment with WLP3068.

Pitch one smack pack direct- no need for a starter unless it is an old (over 3 months) pack. Ferment at 17C for 3 days- it will go nuts and smell very clovey. Then ramp to 20C for the next 4 days and the banana will really kick in.
Should be done in 7 days- bottle after 9. This ferment schedule will give you a really nice balance and clove and banana.

This reminds me- I must be due to brew this again.

EDIT- Just noticed you dont have temp control. In that case try your best to keep it around 18C. If it is cooler it will tend toward clove and warmer toward banana.