Biab Setup

[Endo]

So I've used the search a bit, and looks like im almost ready to start buying stuff..

I will be looking at doing ~23L batches (whatever fits in to my plastic homebrew fermenter)

Ideally I want to move in to doing Imperial IPA's (not for awhile though)

So I'm thinking something like:

http://www.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Cookwa...um-Stockpot-50L

rather then a 40L URN, gives me more room to play.... As I'm assuming there will be a hell of alot more grain when trying to brew imperial anythings.... so that extra 10l of room will help I hope

And getting an immersion heater rather then using an LPG Burner.

No real reason for elec vs gas... So i'm just leaning towards Elec as its a bit easier... Dont have to worry too much about a stand for the stock pot for the burners, regulators.. etc.. etc..

Is there a compelling reason to go Gas over elec? They end up being roughly around the same price, depending on what burner you buy (I'm guessing my little camping stove aint gonna cut it )


This small setup should be ok for ~23l batches?

Thanks for your help in advance..

 

[ekul]

that should be fine.
Here's a similar/same pot for a bit less. I've dealt with this bloke and he is great. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/50-litre-Stockpot-/...=item4aa9b4f75b

or you could spend $125 and get a 90L pot Means that you can do doubles if you ever decide to do that. I wish i'd bought a doubl pot straight away. Its the same amount of work but you get twice as much beer. It also means the beer ages for awhile before you drink it.

I think people go electric because its cheaper, quieter and more portable (you can't have a gas burner inside!). But the raw power of a gas burner is hard to beat! I'm going to quadruple batches soon and i don't think that it would be feasible for me to do this with electricity. Even doing a double batch with electricity would probably be tricky (not that i'v ever done one). Another awesome thing about electricity is that you can set the timer on your rig and wake up with your water sitting at mash temps. I've often thought about getting an element just for this. But it only takes me 15mins to get up to temp so it wouldn't shave that much off my brewday.


Good work on deciding to build your own urn. I've often wondered why people buy urns when an element and pot is much cheaper.

 

[RdeVjun]

FWIW, I routinely BIAB in a 19L stockpot, yesterday I made 23L of ESB (1.055, from just 4.6kg of grain). If your kettle volume is limited then it does not mean that the batch size/ brew length is as well, post- boil dilution is what makes up the volume difference, usually at pitching. So, should the 50L stockpot be out of your reach for what ever reason (cost, heat source etc), the 40L urn should still be just about as useful with some adaptation to the processes.
No preference for gas over electric. IIRC ThirstyBoy recently demonstrated 50- odd litres of wort boiling on just a single 10A over- the side immersion element with kettle insulation and a floating cover, however it may take two to do the job reliably.

 

[Bribie G]

Electricity only costs a few tens of cents. For example an urn runs at a tad more power than a domestic portable little fan heater but not much more. I hear people talking about three or four dollars gas for a brew. To me that's a quantum leap costwise, almost wipes out most of your savings from hop and malt bulk buys. However some people just love to stand trembling with excitement next to the raw screaming power of the Rambo burner in full vent. B)

As demo'd at my brew day the other day I have a 40L urn but also a Kambrook hotplate in the brewery,



and I can easily bring the wort to the boil in around 20 mins by boiling and returning batches to the urn - using a thick bottomed stockpot - with little or no extra power expenditure, just gets me there faster. Also the dux nuts for doing cereal mashes and small hop boils on the side (edit: and cranking out an insane bacon bone and lentil soup) so it's a multi-value-added system (is that English?)

 

[QldKev]

I started BIAB in a 40L pot, then I upgraded to a 50L keggle. IMHO the 50L is the perfect size for a single batch. I did however prefer the wider opening of the 40L pot. I think for a single a 40L pot is ok, but a 50L pot would rock.

As ekul mentioned depending on how much beer you get through against how often you want to brew consider the larger pot. I went to a 82L keggle for doubles, and now I have a 140L pot for quads. Quads means I can brew less than once a month if I choose; and if I want to experiment I still have the smaller pots. So for not that much more in your setup costs a pot for a double could be the way to go.

In the electric Vs LPG debate both have pros and cons

Noise -
electricity wins as it is virtually silent.

Cost to run -
electric power is about 15c/kwh, you need at least 2hours running time in a brew day so a 2400w element = 2.4kw/h x 2hrs x 15c = about 72c
LPG I allow about $2 to $3 a batch.

Speed -
A decent LPG burner will save you a lot of time on a brew day. Using my water heating caculator, to get 33L of water from 20 to 69c (mash in temp) using a 2400w element is about 45mins. A decent LPG burner will take under 15mins. Also factor in the time when you lift you bag and you get the wort from 66c to 100c for the boil.
This time factor to me more than offsets the $2 savings for electricity.

As bribie mentioned he has a hot plate that he transfers liquid to, to help speed up the process. I'm slack, so that's out for me. A second element, like an over the side immersion heater, would help with the speed issue. This assumes you are using a single batch and have enough power points in the house to run multiple elements. If you want to do double, or larger, sized batches then you need more elements, or you wait longer on brew day.

In my case I cannot run 2 x 2400w elements from my house; unless I turn everything inside off. (my wife and kids won't allow this to happen) LPG is the only option for me. Also now I'm doing a 100L batch you can imagine how many electric elements I would need to keep the brew day within a decent time frame. Also I sometimes take my brew setup to fellow brewers houses and brew; an electric system would mean sometimes I could not brew as they may not have enough spare electric capacity to run them.

But if you go the single batch system and can run 2 x 2400w elements, it would be a good setup.

QldKev

 

[Nick JD]

I took the door off 3 mircowave ovens and I ductaped them to the side of my kettle. I can bring 28L of cold tap water to the boil in 75 seconds and entertain the neighbours with the fireworks coming off the kettle.

My voice has been getting higher pitched though lately.

 

[Gormand]

I took the door off 3 mircowave ovens and I ductaped them to the side of my kettle. I can bring 28L of cold tap water to the boil in 75 seconds and entertain the neighbours with the fireworks coming off the kettle.

My voice has been getting higher pitched though lately.

Im not sure if I want this to be a joke or serious.

 

[Endo]

Speed is a big factor.. Gas it is

Any truths to the rumour that Alu pots can flavour the beer?

Choices choices... Too many choices...

 

[sjcampbell]

I took the door off 3 mircowave ovens and I ductaped them to the side of my kettle. I can bring 28L of cold tap water to the boil in 75 seconds and entertain the neighbours with the fireworks coming off the kettle.

My voice has been getting higher pitched though lately.

A Darwin award in the making

Cheers
Steve

 

[QldKev]

Speed is a big factor.. Gas it is

Any truths to the rumour that Alu pots can flavour the beer?

Choices choices... Too many choices...

Now you have to choose the burner :unsure:


I've got a dual BIAB rig. Often I have run dual brews at a time; and often 1 will be in an alu pot and the other in a s/s. Personally I could not tell you which pot the beer was made from. Alu is a better conductor of heat, so works better for LPG setups. Alu is also cheaper to buy, and a lot lighter to carry around for cleaning etc. I've got a 140L alu pot from that ebay seller ekul sent you a link about, it is very good quality; so much after ekul saw it he purchased one. S/S is better for bling factor and also when cleaning you can just chuck some PBW in it a leave it for a few days until you can be stuffed looking at it. Watch out if you go some of the cheaper s/s pots, they are thin and several people have had them leak and also rust.

:icon_offtopic:
Just thinking of how many pots in my brewery
2 x 5L alu pots - for playing with sparge water, boiling rice etc
19L s/s pot - ready for my 3V HERMS
40L alu pot - first BIAB pot I used, nice and wide.
50L s/s keggle - setup as a secondary pot for my dual rig
82L s/s keggle - setup as an alternative for my dual rig, allows a double brew, and ready for my 3V HLT
100L s/s pot - ready for my 3V Mash tun
140L alu pot - current 100L BIAB, and will be my 3V Kettle


QldKev

 

[sjcampbell]

Now you have to choose the burner :unsure:


I've got a dual BIAB rig. Often I have run dual brews at a time; and often 1 will be in an alu pot and the other in a s/s. Personally I could not tell you which pot the beer was made from. Alu is a better conductor of heat, so works better for LPG setups. Alu is also cheaper to buy, and a lot lighter to carry around for cleaning etc. I've got a 140L alu pot from that ebay seller ekul sent you a link about, it is very good quality; so much after ekul saw it he purchased one. S/S is better for bling factor and also when cleaning you can just chuck some PBW in it a leave it for a few days until you can be stuffed looking at it. Watch out if you go some of the cheaper s/s pots, they are thin and several people have had them leak and also rust.

Kev,

So why don't you use the PBW on the Ally pots. I am making up my mind what to buy at the moment and Ally is in front - mainly on cost, but I also want something I don't have too treat with kid gloves.

BTW, Is a 100 litre pot tot big for a single?

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phoney]

Speed -
A decent LPG burner will save you a lot of time on a brew day. Using my water heating caculator, to get 33L of water from 20 to 69c (mash in temp) using a 2400w element is about 45mins. A decent LPG burner will take under 15mins. Also factor in the time when you lift you bag and you get the wort from 66c to 100c for the boil.
This time factor to me more than offsets the $2 savings for electricity.

Protip: Fill your kettle from the hot water tap @ 60C rather than the cold water tap @20C and you only need to wait 5 mins to bring it up to strike temp.

But yes, ramping up to mashout & boil temperatures can seem to take forever.

 

[ekul]

100L pot is a really good size for a 56L double batch. Heaps of head room so you can boil it nice and hard.

All my pots up until recently have been stainless, but i bought an ali one recently (140L). I've tasted beer made in both types of pots and to be honest i haven't noticed a difference. I've tasted beer made in both types of pots and to be honest i haven't noticed a difference.


Good idea nick, now wheres my screwdriver.


[quote name='Steve's Pub' post='759651' date='Apr 4 2011, 02:22 PM']So why don't you use the PBW on the Ally pots. I am making up my mind what to buy at the moment and Ally is in front - mainly on cost, but I also want something I don't have too treat with kid gloves.

BTW, Is a 100 litre pot to small for a single?

Cheers
Steve[/quote]

 

[sjcampbell]

100L pot is a really good size for a 56L double batch. Heaps of head room so you can boil it nice and hard.

All my pots up until recently have been stainless, but i bought an ali one recently (140L). I've tasted beer made in both types of pots and to be honest i haven't noticed a difference. I've tasted beer made in both types of pots and to be honest i haven't noticed a difference.


Good idea nick, now wheres my screwdriver.

ekul,

Sorry just edited my post - it is now "is 100L pot too BIG for a single (23 litre) batch."

Just me being dyslexic when I type

Cheers
Steve

 

[QldKev]

[quote name='Steve's Pub' post='759651' date='Apr 4 2011, 02:22 PM']So why don't you use the PBW on the Ally pots. I am making up my mind what to buy at the moment and Ally is in front - mainly on cost, but I also want something I don't have too treat with kid gloves.

BTW, Is a 100 litre pot to big for a single?

Cheers
Steve[/quote]


You can use PBW on alu no problems, you can't leave it full of PBW/water overnight otherwise electrolysis will set-in and you will have pitting on the pot. If you get a commercial grade pot you dont need to be too kind to it either; but I would not store it outside etc.

Only issue I can see with a 100L pot for a single is the boil of rates may be a bit extreme, and the losses to trub will be high for a single due to the large surface area. But I do think it would work.

QldKev

 

[ekul]

I've done singles in my 80L when i want to experiment so you should be fine. However making doubles is so much better ebcause if you do an experiment and it turns out awesome, then you've got another cube of it sitting there ready to go.

I spose the same could be said of terrible batches. I've never had an undrinkable batch be due to poor recipe design, only infection. Poor recipe design can usually be fixed somehow.

 

[ekul]

When i was trying to work out some boil calculations i came across an interesting fact. When water is below boiling temp the biggest factor in evaporation rate is the surface area of the brew. When it is boiling the biggest factor is the amount of heat/energy going into it. This is because the evaporation is happening in solution and not only on the surface of the liquid.

Obviously a big surface area on the bottom of the pot will soak up more heat though, so maybe there is a relationship there. I thought it was interesting anyway.

You can use PBW on alu no problems, you can't leave it full of PBW/water overnight otherwise electrolysis will set-in and you will have pitting on the pot. If you get a commercial grade pot you don't need to be too kind to it either; but I would not store it outside etc.

Only issue I can see with a 100L pot for a single is the boil of rates may be a bit extreme, and the losses to trub will be high for a single due to the large surface area. But I do think it would work.

QldKev

 

[Endo]

Picked up my burner from Cellar Plus in north melbourne

http://www.casagarden.it/199-247-thickbox/...re-in-ghisa.jpg

$95 for the burner/stand
$35 for a medium pressure regulator (2.5kg / hr)

Now I just need the pot and other goodies..

Did come across: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3265

Bit blingy, but might have to get it anyway

Craftbrewer also sell the urn site glass kits as well. Have many people added a site glass for easy measuring for their pot?

 

[argon]

Not that either is necessary in a BIAB vessel, but if i were after a thermo and sight glass i'd be getting one of these from BrewersHardware.com

 

[Cannibal Smurf]

Not that either is necessary in a BIAB vessel, but if i were after a thermo and sight glass i'd be getting one of these from BrewersHardware.com

Can vouch for these. Great bloke to deal with and they're really easy to fit, if you get stuck he has a youtube vid showing how-to. Price is great with the AUD up so high also.