Biab Materials

[The_Duck]

Apoligies in advance if this has been asked and answered but I have not been able to find it on here or in BIAB.info

Is there a specific reason for using nylon for BIAB ?

Just curious because I have gone the other way and gone for "all natural cotton" for everything.


Duck

 

[Phoney]

Look in this thread:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=11694

 

[The_Duck]

Hi Phoney,

Thanks for that.

I did review it, however the only reason I can see from the threads in the "51-100" section is that at least 1 person experienced either bag failure or did not get good flow through their material.

I have done a couple of BIABs using cotton based materials of fairly open weave with no issues. But after doing more research, I kept coming across the old Swiss Voille and nylon everywhere.

I was thinking maybe there was some issues with sanitation or possibly that heat/acid/alkaline/whatever was pushing towards synthetics.

I have some good semi open weave cotton etc that I will be soaking in boiling water to remove formaldehyde and starches from the fabric mills and then sterilise it before use. Worst comes to worst I can double up for strength if a single layer is too weak.

As I will only be doing single batches intially the grain bill is fairly low so not much weight to worry about.

Any other words of wisdom from the group ?

Duck

 

[Gopha]

Hi Phoney,

Thanks for that.

I did review it, however the only reason I can see from the threads in the "51-100" section is that at least 1 person experienced either bag failure or did not get good flow through their material.

I have done a couple of BIABs using cotton based materials of fairly open weave with no issues. But after doing more research, I kept coming across the old Swiss Voille and nylon everywhere.

I was thinking maybe there was some issues with sanitation or possibly that heat/acid/alkaline/whatever was pushing towards synthetics.

I have some good semi open weave cotton etc that I will be soaking in boiling water to remove formaldehyde and starches from the fabric mills and then sterilise it before use. Worst comes to worst I can double up for strength if a single layer is too weak.

As I will only be doing single batches intially the grain bill is fairly low so not much weight to worry about.

Any other words of wisdom from the group ?

Duck

Hi, I use Swiss Voile fabric with no issues, but i will qualify that by saying it is important to get the right fabric weave, if it is too tight, when you trying to lift the bag it wont drain drain fast enough.

The fabric needs to be clean and free of any chemical residues as you have suggested, but it does not have to be sterile/sanitised as the wort will be boiled.

At the end of each brew session I wash the bag in clean water then soak it in a cheap bleach solution to whiten it, let dry in the sun and its ready to go next time.

If you wont a sample of the fabric i use PM me and i will send you a sample via snail mail. - Cheers

 

[bum]

I don't BIAB but my assumption is that nylon would be less prone to rot than cotton, I'm pretty sure it has the highest melting point of any of the relevant synthetics and is pretty strong. All reasons it would be favoured. There are probably more. The good stuff will cost six parts of bugger all to acquire so either give the cotton a run or bite the bullet and get the recommended stuff. I can guarantee you that you won't be the first person to try it and if it was better you'd find more people using it.

[EDIT: As corrected below, I've had a brainfart here and incorrectly recommended nylon over polyester - polyester is your man over nylon. My apologies to all.]

 

[Lecterfan]

I thought it was meant to be polyster? I've used cotton voile more as a mash tun filter type thing in the past, but only out of desperation... I've seen a nylon biab set up and it is certainly heavy duty compared to the cotton...

What was the point of my reply? No idea.

 

[felten]

Yeah I thought polyester was the preferred material as well, I've seen a few people say its stiffer and easier draining. My bag is very flimsy and doesn't drain well but TBH I'm not sure if its nylon or poly =/

 

[bum]

I thought it was meant to be polyster? I've used cotton voile more as a mash tun filter type thing in the past, but only out of desperation... I've seen a nylon biab set up and it is certainly heavy duty compared to the cotton...

What was the point of my reply? No idea.

No, you're right. I was thinking about how the Yanks all recommend nylon instead of polyester and was wondering if I'd go into that while writing the other bit. I am embarrassed. Definitely polyester.

 

[widdley]

I looked into this a bit when I started...

Essentially you need a bag that will hold your grain and like others have said, the weave needs to be not to fine and not to coarse...
The bag also needs to be made of a material that can handle near boiling temperatures.

Beyond that its all personal preference... remember its a bag to hold grain not lingerie :blink:

Lots go for the man made fibres because there is at least anecdotal evidence to suggest it is more durable, dries much quicker and is not prone to rot...
I have heard a couple of people say their cotton bag tore after a few brews, and others with synthetic bags state they have the same bag after 100 brews, but not sure if this is representative of all users...

And thats pretty much it. If you've had no issues to date with a cotton bag I see no reason to change. Worst case scenario, you may have to fork out another 10 clams somewhere down the track for a new bag. It may however pay to insect it prior to each brew as you don't want it ripping on ya :angry:

Now, stop procrastinating and go and make beer
:kooi:

 

[Phoney]

Yep, I read easily over 100+ testimonials of BIAB brewers all of which used Swiss Voile bags with no issues to speak of before giving it a go myself, therefore I sought no reason to deviate from the method and choose my own style of cloth. It's cheap, readily available, no problemo.

Basically the way I figure out this whole home brewing caper is "Well, people who are a hell of lot more experienced than me have already worked out all of this shit, and came to their conclusions most likely for very good reasons, so I best just to stick to what they recommend" - so far it has worked out for me to a tee.

 

[bum]

Basically the way I figure out this whole home brewing caper is "Well, people who are a hell of lot more experienced than me have already worked out all of this shit, and came to their conclusions most likely for very good reasons, so I best just to stick to what they recommend" - so far it has worked out for me to a tee.

Said the BIABer.

Nothing against the process - I just think it is pretty funny given the context.

 

[seemax]

Cotton (eg muslin) will do the job but it's not as strong, holds lots of water and takes too darn long to dry out.

The ol' swiss voile is hard to beat, $8/m at your local spotlight/lincraft/etc. Toss the grains in the compost, shake the voile of grains, quick rinse off in water and hang out to dry.

 

[wizard78]

Cotton (eg muslin) will do the job but it's not as strong, holds lots of water and takes too darn long to dry out.

The ol' swiss voile is hard to beat, $8/m at your local spotlight/lincraft/etc. Toss the grains in the compost, shake the voile of grains, quick rinse off in water and hang out to dry.

+1, I love the fact that it is that easy to clean the stuff, and I was lucky enough to walk into spotlight when it was on sale for $2 p/m :beerbang:
It is very strong and durable 'till.............................you put your mash paddle straight though it :angry: oh well.... :lol:

 

[Lecterfan]

I am embarrassed.

Thank god its not always me :icon_cheers:

 

[PistolPatch]

Apoligies in advance if this has been asked and answered but I have not been able to find it on here or in BIABrewer.info

No apologies needed Duck, it's a hard topic to search on.

This subject actually did come up recently (the thread wasn't titled too well so you would have missed it for sure) and it made me have a think and do a few posts as apd and rodders have also had success with natural fibres.

These three posts here should give you a bit more info...

This one, the one after and finally this one.

Please let us know if the natural fibre keeps going well for you. Be great if it does,
Pat

 

[Phoney]

Said the BIABer.

Nothing against the process - I just think it is pretty funny given the context.

Yeah OK I see where you're coming from.... sure, but Pat & the others who pioneered the BIAB style were already seasoned brewers with years of experience under their belts, and they undertook a hell of a lot of R&D to come up with this method. Whereas I for instance, and most other folk who have gotten into BIAB are more or less only just starting out in AG and are upgrading from k&k/extract/partial so we have no genuine reason to deviate from a well trodden path to experiment with other kinds materials.

 

[Bribie G]

Yeah OK I see where you're coming from.... sure, but Pat & the others who pioneered the BIAB style were already seasoned brewers with years of experience under their belts, and they undertook a hell of a lot of R&D to come up with this method. Whereas I for instance, and most other folk who have gotten into BIAB are more or less only just starting out in AG and are upgrading from k&k/extract/partial so we have no genuine reason to deviate from a well trodden path to experiment with other kinds materials.

Yup, as mentioned above the Polyester swiss voile is so robust that after 2 years I'm still only on my second bag - I gave away the first one not because it was failing but because it was the 'dogs balls' design (as opposed to the 'teardrop' design) so the shape, not the material, was annoyingme - and I have had no reason to experiment around, if it ain't broke why fix it. A bit like a 3V brewer being asked "have you ever considered a mashtun made out of a hollowed out rainforest log"?

 

[PistolPatch]

Pat & the others who pioneered the BIAB style were already seasoned brewers with years of experience under their belts, and they undertook a hell of a lot of R&D to come up with this method.

I love you phoney :wub:. It's very nice and very much appreciated to get a mention now that I don't post so much here.

One correction though, I actually was not a 'seasoned' brewer with years of experience under my belt. I had brewed on and off for about 20 years but this experience amounted to nothing. When the idea of full-volume AG brewing came up in this thread by James Squire I did have access to a few good and open-minded AG brewers who offered substantial and important initial encouragement. It was also very fortunate that I was 3V'ing in an apartment and am a bit prone to thoroughly investigating new ideas - usually a fruitless personality dis-order !

When you say that a hell of a lot of R&D was done, you are - ummmm, I don't know what to say??? If R&D means time, thinking, taking and looking for measurements and looking for truth, then you are truly spot on!

Five years on, I can't see any reason why any brewer with an ounce of common sense can question BIAB as being a method of AG brewing that is equivalent or even better in many situations than batch or fly-sparging. Questioning the efficiency of BIAB is just ridiculous and hardly bears mentioning.

Regarding R&D, I think brewers do not put enough effort into this. There are many things out there for us to explore but so few willing particpants.

The more I brew, the more I realise how little I know, or any other brewer knows, about figures. For example, for all those who love efficiency, what figure should be used to correct the efficiency between a 60 minute and 90 minute boil? If you can't see the importance of this then don't hold yourself out as being a guru on efficiency.

I've done a few research threads here on AHB that were non-BIAB related. The BIABrewers stepped up a lot more than others but the end result is that most brewers don't bother to record/report their brews. This is unfortunate as I have many questions I would like to ask that apply to all AG brewers regardless of their brewing method.

It is very hard to get answers at the moment but I have a few ideas up my sleeve .

So, what's the point of this long post?

The point is that natural fibres on a BIAB bag might be a very good idea. We'll never know though unless people post their experience and pics.

Little bit pissed now ,
Pat

 

[Lecterfan]

Thanks for adding that link PP. Its fascinating to see the kernel of an idea that is now a relatively mainstream and well accepted method. I'm also impressed that you slipped in cognitive dissonance as a reason for no responses...I would have thought there was even more of that now that BIAB has become so popular...(ie people changing their minds to get in line with their budget and sense of practicality, or conversely people taking up BIAB to align their physical practices more with their sense of pragmatism).

Regardless of opinions, (and from someone who regularly has more success with Google than the in built search function), that is great stuff.

 

[Bribie G]

:icon_offtopic: :icon_offtopic: does anyone know where that thread is about the BIAB vs 3v vs herms brew off? posted by Spillsmostofit if I recall? The one where they were wearing lab coats. Wondering how that turned out.