Biab Ag 30l Urn?

[Thirsty Boy]

Thanks for the great replies! I'm always astounded by the level of help offered on this forum, hopefully I can get to the stage where I can give back at some stage!

There seems to be some difference of opinion on whether post-boil dilution is a suitable option? What would be the advantages of using a secondary vessel (and using the original volume of water) over post-boil dilution (or even adding hot water pre-boil)?

I know I shouldn't be choosing a procedure just because it is the easiest, but I'm not sure what the disadvantages are of choosing a 20L batch recipe, starting off with 23L of water in the Urn, using that to mash out in, bringing it up to boil and add hops, and then topping up with hot water up to 20L.

Why the hell is "easy" not a valid reason to do something??

There is no real reason why a small amount of dilution is bad (a lot is different) except that it magnifies your errors - you aren't going to stuff up your dilution, but the bits you are likely to stuff up are concentrated. If you must have a "full" batch of beer... dilute away. I personally think you are better with a full boil volume and no post boil dilution -- but thats at least as much personal bias as anything else.

Your actual "easiest" option is to brew less beer is a smaller batch - this will be for a first time brewer, significantly easier to handle and understand - but if you want the full volume, then go with either post boil dilution, or the method in the document I wrote... naturally I prefer the thing I wrote and it will give you better efficiency... but just going with what seems to make sense to you - is pretty much the best advice of all.

I would still suggest you choose an option that involves a process more akin to the one you plan to use in the future... but its certainly no biggie if you dont. Pretty much no matter what you do... it'll work out just fine. Brewing is a very forgiving process.. all the squabbling and technical mumbo jumbo aside - it really is fairly hard to stuff up so badly that you still wont make decent beer.

 

[Cronessa]

Why the hell is "easy" not a valid reason to do something??

if you want the full volume, then go with either post boil dilution, or the method in the document I wrote...

You're right, 'easy' should be a consideration

I'm going to follow the method in your document, but use the esky with the 22L volume as the primary mash vessel and lauter in 11L in the urn (apologies if terminology is incorrect).

Am I correct in assuming that this method will still leave a boil volume of around 27-28L? I'm scared of boil overs considering that you can't really take an urn directly off a heat source. I've had bad experiences using LDME in pots that are too small...

 

[big78sam]

You've always got the option of leaving a few litres in the esky and as the boil goes and the volume drops, adding the remainder from the esky to the urn. I'd want to allow at least half an hour left in the boil to add the last liquid from the esky to ensure these bits get a 30 min boil minimum. I dont know if you'd need to, that's just what I'd do.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

make a little less - then you wont be so near the top. The volumes in my document were an example... they will differ depending on your grain bill and expected finishing volume etc.

The reason to start in the urn and sparge in the eski is that its a hell of a lot easier to plonk a wet hot grain bag into a nice wide eski.. than it is to stuff one into a tall narrow urn. Also, you have no way to raise your temperature from your main mash temp to your lauter/mashout temp if you do your main mash in the eski... this will cost you a number of efficiency points. If you care about them.

 

[big78sam]

Thirstyboy and I seem to be playing post tennis. My turn

+1 about the wet bag in the wide mouthed esky.

There is some debate about whether a mashout is required (do a search and you'll find this easily enough). I personally don't do one in the urn. However, I do make sure the water in the esky is at about 78 degrees so the dunk sparge acts as a sort of defacto mash out. I decided to ditch the mashout after burning the bag and leaving holes in it by turning the esky on to raise the temp to 78 degrees with the bag touching the bottom. I cant say I've ever done a side by side with and without a mashout and compared the efficiency though. It could be beneficial but my theory is keep it simple.

This is just the way I do it, it's not necessarily the "best" way...

 

[seemax]

I only reason I use a voile bag in my esky is for 'ease' ... lift it out, dump grains in the compost, wash bag, rinse esky. No hassles with cleaning manifolds or cleaning out grain from the esky.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thirstyboy and I seem to be playing post tennis. My turn…

+1 about the wet bag in the wide mouthed esky.

There is some debate about whether a mashout is required (do a search and you'll find this easily enough). I personally don't do one in the urn. However, I do make sure the water in the esky is at about 78 degrees so the dunk sparge acts as a sort of defacto mash out. I decided to ditch the mashout after burning the bag and leaving holes in it by turning the esky on to raise the temp to 78 degrees with the bag touching the bottom. I can’t say I've ever done a side by side with and without a mashout and compared the efficiency though. It could be beneficial but my theory is keep it simple.

This is just the way I do it, it's not necessarily the "best" way...

I have done that side by side... 5-10% difference in mash efficiency.. I will spare you the multiple paragraphs of mash theory that tells you why.

seemax -- you are basically batch sparging and just using voile as an "ease of use" tool yes?? Talk louder... this is exactly what I think our newbie friend should be doing, and you are the only guy I am aware of thats brewing this way. You're the man he needs to be talking to.

 

[Cronessa]

Well, the answer came to me today in the middle of bottling 5 cartons of beer.

Why not make the 30L urn into a 40L (or higher capacity) urn?

My brewing mate's father-in-law is a welder, so we aim to weld an extra piece of stainless steel to the top. The urn should be able to handle the extra volume as its only a couple of extra litres. I'll post back in here and let everyone know how it goes.

Thank you for all your suggestions, I still learnt a lot about the process. I was hesitant to do a smaller batch as I always brew with my mate, so splitting a smaller volume in half would start to spread it pretty thin (especially the way we go though it!).

 

[Bribie G]

If it's a 2400w element you should have no trouble maintaining a rolling boil with the 'enhanced' new urn.

 

[Cronessa]

If it's a 2400w element you should have no trouble maintaining a rolling boil with the 'enhanced' new urn.

It's a 1800w element so we'll see how it goes.

I really only need to boil around 27 - 28L after mashing so it should handle it ok ... I hope ...

 

[Bribie G]

You may well be ok, My 40L Birko Urn - 2400W - goes up to 110 on the dial and I keep it permanently on 95 setting, and it boils just fine on that.

 

[seemax]

seemax -- you are basically batch sparging and just using voile as an "ease of use" tool yes?? Talk louder... this is exactly what I think our newbie friend should be doing, and you are the only guy I am aware of thats brewing this way. You're the man he needs to be talking to.

Indeed... time is my most precious commodity!!

I've tried the traditional BIAB method but in my kitchen it's just too hard lifting the wet bag from the pot.

I have a 26L esky with no manifold (although have used a stainless steel braid prior). I do a single batch sparge which gets me up to 30L in the kettle. The only catch is a need 2 pots, a kettle and a HLT equivalent.

Efficiency wise my system is not great, partly due to design and partly due to using Powells malt exclusively (pilsner in particular). Either way it's simple, easy to clean, stores in the laundry and makes decent beer... who am I to complain?

 

[Cronessa]

That's good to know BribieG, cheers!

The extra capacity will really be for preventing boil overs, 27-28L is cutting it a bit fine in a 30L urn. This way, I wont have to worry.

 

[stevepreece]

Hi,
I started the ebay thread that was referenced earlier.

Sounds like you are doing exactly what I do.

I use the urn as a kettle and then as boiler. I have an esky which I had intended to turn into a "proper" mash tun, even have all the copper tubes and taps etc.
Then I saw this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...4&hl=thirty and I was off.

Basically I line the esky with swiss voile, stick in the grain, cover with water, attack with the potato masher and monitor the temperature at half way point.
Then pretty much do as Nick JD does in the above.

I make 20 litre batches and if I need more when I get to the cube I top it up with a boiled kettle, I use a $10 cube from rays outdoors.
I just leave it in the cube overnight to cool.

Its all worked brilliant so far, A few minor mishaps and lots of in and out the back door looking for bits but thats just my chaotic nature
My wife isn't happy about the sticky kitchen floor but, Its fine after a couple of moppings.
My mates are always on hand to taste and keep coming back for more. Certainly better than the kits I have been making for the last 30 years.

As another newbie to All grain, just go for it, and don't be surprised about how nice and sweet it all is.
Have a go at http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...&recipe=877 if you want a simple starter.......It goes down really easily

Good luck

 

[Cronessa]

I use the urn as a kettle and then as boiler. I have an esky which I had intended to turn into a "proper" mash tun, even have all the copper tubes and taps etc.
Then I saw this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...4&hl=thirty and I was off.

Good luck

Thanks so much for the reply Steve. I'm definately going to give it a go!

I'll read through all the threads in depth tonight.