Belle Saison (Danstar)

[mje1980]

I have found a few old threads on stout with saison yeast. I think it works very well. Drinking one right now!

 

[manticle]

I've used this yeast a couple of times and had enjoyable results.

I know saison should be quite light and thin, but mine are thinner than I'd like.

How many people are using simple sugars in their saisons? in what percentage?

I have seen some 'commercial' recipes recently and few are using sugar -maybe it's just us homebrewers...

I never use sugar in my saisons.
Never used dry but 3711 eats everything and I just make sure one of my sacch rests is low 60s. if you do a double sacch (low 60s for 15, raise to 68 for 40-50) you'll get some body to offset the dryness (but still attenuate well and get that characteristic dry finish.)

no need for sugar with the right yeast unless you really want to boost the abv.

 

[kevo]

no need for sugar with the right yeast unless you really want to boost the abv.

That seems to be whats happening in many HB saisons as far as I can tell.

Heard a strategy discussed recently to mash high to gain body and then use sugar in the ferment...

 

[doon]

My best saisons have been pilsner with 100g of acid malt mashed at 64 deg

 

[doon]

And with 3711

 

[lael]

My best saisons have been pilsner with 100g of acid malt mashed at 64 deg

What FG are you usually finishing at?

 

[mje1980]

Pitched this today in a standard saison recipe. Pitched at 24c and I'm seeing activity within a few hours. Bloody hell!. I plan on pitching a Belgian IIPA on half of the cake, after cooling back down to 20c

The stout I brewed with it is all gone haha

 

[Jace89]

I love this yeast, I have only used it once though.

I picthed at 28C and 12hrs later I allowed it to climb to 32C, awesome amount of spice and fruit esters. Its now sitting on some brett awaiting the warmer months when I'll keg and bottle it.

I'll be brewing again with it soon!

 

[mje1980]

Ok cool, so pitching warm doesn't seem to bother it ?. That'd be awesome, as I prefer esters to phenols, so would be happy to keep it above 23 or so for the whole ferment. I plan on ramping it up to 30 after 48hours.

 

[mje1980]

36 hrs is close enough, it's now on its way to 30c via a heat belt. Pretty cool that a yeast can handle such high temps and not be Undrinkable haha

 

[mje1980]

Cranked it to 30-32 for the last few days, now looks done at 1.002. What a beast of a yeast. Despite the warm ferment, the sample is fruity but still a bit of black pepper. Not very cloudy either, seems to start dropping out pretty quick. Will keg today and try later in the week. How cool is that? Haha

 

[mwd]

Just put together the Coopers Saison kit with belle saison yeast . I added 500g of rice syrup and 500g BE2 to up the ABV a bit.
Could not get the temperature down fast enough, used too much boiling water cleaning out the cans so ended up pitching at 24C late last night. This morning it was going quite fast and the Krausen has just reached the underside of the lid. The plan is to let it get down to 22C for a couple of days then turn off the fridge and allow it to creep up to FG.

Intend to use the yeast cake afterwards for a Stout/Dark Ale toucan.

 

[mabrungard]

After a couple of months to mull over the taste of my Saison, I have additional comments about this yeast.

An important factor is that this is a well attenuating yeast and it is well suited for creating a Saison in some respects. Interestingly in my saison, even with a FG of 0.998, drinkers are not finding that the beer is overly dry. There is still some sweetness and fullness to compliment the palate and perceptions. I find that it is the yeast's phenolic character that dominates, but not excessively. This is likely due to the modest initial fermentation temperature of around 21C for about a week, followed with a rise to about 26C to help the yeast finish out very well. The character that I miss in this yeast is the earthiness that you get in a bottle of Saison Dupont. This yeast does not seem to have that character.

Overall, this is a very nice belgian yeast. But it may not be ideal as a saison yeast due to the lacking earthiness. In retrospect, this yeast is probably very well suited for a Belgian Pale Ale since the ester and phenol production is apparent, yet restrained. I expect that brewers will find this a credible yeast for many Belgian styles.

 

[Dickster86]

I plan on using this yeast tomorrow in a recipe i've whacked together (with some help from forums). I dont have a brew fridge or temp controller. But should be able to keep it around the 20 - 22 degrees celsius mark i am hoping (thanks to a handy under stairs storage / brew room). Just need some advice on rehydration though

1 x 1.5kg Tin Amber Malt Extract
2 1 x 1.5kg Tin Light Malt Extract
1 x 1.5kg Tin Wheat Malt Extract
500 Grams Caramunich III grains
500 Grams WY CARAAROMA MALT (for more of a reddish hue)
4 x 5g Cascade Hops
4 x 5g Willamette Hops
4 x 5g Mosaic Hops
3 x 10g Cascade Hops (for boil)
3 x 10g Willamette Hops (for boil)
3 x 10g Mosaic Hops (for boil)
1 x 5g Cascade Hops (for finishing)
1 x 5g Willamette Hops (for finishing)
1 x 5g Mosaic Hops (for finishing)
Ale Yeast (High Attenuation, High Sedimentation, High ABV Tolerance)
2 x 11g Danstar Belle Saison (rehydrated)

1) The night before chill 10L of water in the fridge
2) Place grains in a ziplock bag and crush with a rolling pin.
3) Steep Grains in 2L 5L of hot not boiling water for 1 Hour 30 Minutes
4) Strain liquid into a large pot and discard the grains
5) Add an additional 3L of water to the pot as well as the Amber Malt
6) Bring Wort to the boil. Once boiling add 10g of each three hop varieties
7) After 20 minutes add another 10g of each three hop varieties
8) After 20 minutes add another 10g of each three hop varieties
9) Set the pot in a cold/ice water bath to cool then strain into a fermenting vessel (FV)
10) Add the 3kg 1.5kg of Amber Malt, 1.5kg of Light Malt and 1.5kg of Wheat Malt extract into the FV
a. Soak the tins in hot water prior to opening, and rinse the tins with some boiling water to get all of the extract out
11) Top up the fermenter with cold and warm water to reach a total volume of 25L at approx. 22 degrees celcius
12) Sprinkle Gently pour the rehydrated yeast onto the top of the FV then leave to ferment for at least 7 days
13) Halfway through the fermentation add a hop infuser bag to the fermenter filled with 5g of each three hop varieties
14) Once fermentation has completed and SG readings over two consecutive days stay constant bottle or keg, priming with appropriate level of dextrose or carbonation drops.

 

[hirschb]

I plan on using this yeast tomorrow in a recipe i've whacked together (with some help from forums). I dont have a brew fridge or temp controller. But should be able to keep it around the 20 - 22 degrees celsius mark i am hoping (thanks to a handy under stairs storage / brew room). Just need some advice on rehydration though

I'm an all-grain brewer, so I'd do this very differently, but a few notes:
There is no need for amber malt or caraaroma. Saisons are traditionally very light, Biere de gardes are maltier. I typically use all pale malt and wheat for the base, with some other grains thrown in for texture/flavor (rolled oats, spelt, etc).
A saison typically looks like this:

Do not throw in hops at 40 and 20 minutes (you've written this as having a 40min boil, but I assume you meant 60min). Mid-boil additions are kinda useless. Throw in some hops at the beginning for bittering (use a recipe calculator to dial in the IBU's you want), and then throw in the rest of the hops at flameout or whirlpool. This will maximize the hop aromas. I'd also recommend first wort hopping for a smoother hop character.
Then, for the dry hops, do not throw them in while fermentation is still going. You want to thrown them in a few days before bottling. Wait until the beer gets to the gravity you want, throw in the dry hops for 1-3 days, and then bottle. The best way to do this is to throw the hops straight in the fermentor, then cold crash the beer in a fridge so the hops pass through the beer and settle with the trub..... but this will be hard without a beer fridge.
And two packets of Belle saison yeast thrown straight into the wort will turn out fine.

 

[Dickster86]

I'm an all-grain brewer, so I'd do this very differently, but a few notes:
There is no need for amber malt or caraaroma. Saisons are traditionally very light, Biere de gardes are maltier. I typically use all pale malt and wheat for the base, with some other grains thrown in for texture/flavor (rolled oats, spelt, etc).

I totally get your point. And you are definitely correct. However i probably should have specified that i am trying to make a red farmhouse ale, not so much a traditional saison. Probably somewhat of a cross between a traditional saison like the dupont you showed a picture of, and my favourite french beer Gavroche.


That said i will be leaving out the amber malt, and instead going for some wheat and pils extracts instead (maybe even some munich extract if i can get it). The cara-aroma is there for the red colour only really.

Regarding hops, yeah i did write that in a bit of a wierd way. And i will take your advice on board. Perhaps just get rid of the 20 min addition. And just have slightly more at start of boil and at flameout, then let site for 15 - 20min before ice bathing it.