Beer is a bit flat, little to no head

[compassbrewer]

Hey guys,

I have bottled my second batch of beer on the 7th of May however the beer is still fairly flat with hardly any head retention.

The kit I used I bought from BrewCraft - http://www.brewcraftsa.com.au/showProduct/Famous+Beer+Recipes/Australian+Beer+Recipes/20902/SA+PALE+ALE+-+Recipe+Favourite%0D%0A

I have kept my fermenter inside the spare room in my house which has (so far as I know) a reasonbly constant temperature of 18 degrees. I think I have seen the temperature on the fermenter drop to 16 but never any lower than that (although it may have dropped further after I went to work early in the morning).

I am using PET bottles, although I didn't have a problem with my first batch (although it did take about 6 weeks after being bottled to have a decent head).

I suspect my problem COULD be related to temperature control after reading some stuff on here, but I just want to know if there are any other possibilities that I could be missing.

Any input would be appreciated. If it is a temperature control related issue, could anybody pass on some reasonably cheap easy solutions for keeping my fermenter and bottles?

 

[Grott]

Hi, lets eliminate a few things first. When you unscrew the PET bottle is there a hiss? In other words is the beer carbonated. If it is then you may have to look at your glasses, if not then the bottles/caps need to be considered. ( also remember these bottles do need some time to carbonated properly. From what you have said, temp doesn't appear to be the problem.
Cheers

 

[wereprawn]

Pick up a cheap/free secondhand fridge. STC-1000 temp controller $15-$20 on e bay( wiring required). Heat belt, aquarium heater ect. All set up for temp control prob under $100.


Or put your bottles in the warmest spot in the house in the meantime.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

How long Fermented and then bottle fermented and then refrigerated (Lagered)?
How did you prime? So many questions but brewing isnt hard really either.
Time is the key for quality. Ale is the fastest turn over from brew to drink.
2 weeks ferment and sit. Bottle for at least 2 weeks. Then chill for at least a week to get the best quality of your beer.
That is 6 weeks minimum for the way I do it. Some brews just need to age though. The more funky ones.
With kegging I have drank beer as low as 10 days from brew day. That was goooood!
If it is good enough then it will be far better with longer conditioning. If you can hold off.

One month in a refrigerated carbonated keg is like the top shelf good shit! Crystal clear and crisp as can be.
:chug:

 

[Rocker1986]

Maybe it's just my palate, but I can't tell any difference in flavour quality of a beer that's been left in the fridge for a day or a week. I put 6 or 7 beers in the fridge, drink one a night, and I can't notice any difference between the first and last one. Even when I do a side by side of one that's been left for a week instead of a day there is no difference. But like I say, maybe it's just my palate.

This particular beer may have been affected by temperature. A 750mL bottle is going to change temperature a lot quicker than a 23 litre fermenter. While you may have noticed the fermenter only drop a degree or two, the bottles may well have dropped more than this, causing the yeast to either go dormant or work rather slowly. I'd try warming them up a bit, waiting another week and seeing whether it makes any difference, if not then it may be something else causing it.

 

[compassbrewer]

Hi, lets eliminate a few things first. When you unscrew the PET bottle is there a hiss? In other words is the beer carbonated. If it is then you may have to look at your glasses, if not then the bottles/caps need to be considered. ( also remember these bottles do need some time to carbonated properly. From what you have said, temp doesn't appear to be the problem.
Cheers

There definitely is a hiss. It's not completely flat, but its not carbonated very well. It has almost no head.

How long Fermented and then bottle fermented and then refrigerated (Lagered)?
How did you prime? So many questions but brewing isnt hard really either.
Time is the key for quality. Ale is the fastest turn over from brew to drink.
2 weeks ferment and sit. Bottle for at least 2 weeks. Then chill for at least a week to get the best quality of your beer.
That is 6 weeks minimum for the way I do it. Some brews just need to age though. The more funky ones.
With kegging I have drank beer as low as 10 days from brew day. That was goooood!
If it is good enough then it will be far better with longer conditioning. If you can hold off.

One month in a refrigerated carbonated keg is like the top shelf good shit! Crystal clear and crisp as can be.
:chug:

It was fermented in the fermenter for just over 2 weeks, and then bottled on the 7th of May. It hasn't been refrigerated (aside from the bottles that I wanted to drink).

I primed the bottles with 2 carbonation drops in my 750ml PET bottles.

Maybe it's just my palate, but I can't tell any difference in flavour quality of a beer that's been left in the fridge for a day or a week. I put 6 or 7 beers in the fridge, drink one a night, and I can't notice any difference between the first and last one. Even when I do a side by side of one that's been left for a week instead of a day there is no difference. But like I say, maybe it's just my palate.

This particular beer may have been affected by temperature. A 750mL bottle is going to change temperature a lot quicker than a 23 litre fermenter. While you may have noticed the fermenter only drop a degree or two, the bottles may well have dropped more than this, causing the yeast to either go dormant or work rather slowly. I'd try warming them up a bit, waiting another week and seeing whether it makes any difference, if not then it may be something else causing it.

Yeah thats what I suspect. I plan on getting a couple of large esky's with a small heating element connected to an esky. Dunno how to do it but my house mate did something similar for an incubator for his chooks, so same prinicpal I guess.

I was having a chat to a guy at work, and he suggested that another potential problem could be is I've been leaving about 30-50ml at the top of my bottle when I've been bottling it. I am sure I read somewhere that you are supposed to leave a bit of room, but my work mate said don't leave gaps, just fill almost to the top and cap it. Thoughts?

 

[wynnum1]

Head and carbonation are not the same thing .

 

[Rocker1986]

Carbonation depends on having adequate priming sugar, enough viable yeast (which shouldn't be hard right after primary fermentation), a warm enough temperature for the yeast to work, and an airtight seal on the bottle.

Leaving headspace at the top of the bottle has no effect on whether the beer carbonates or not. I've half filled bottles on odd occasions in the past and they've carbonated perfectly fine. All my bottles now have about 40mm headspace at the top and also carbonate perfectly fine. Look at the commercial bottle conditioned beers - they all have headspace in the top of the bottles too. I'm guessing your workmate might be talking out of his arse a bit there.

And yes carbonation and head aren't the same although related. You need carbonation to form a head, but head forming and retaining ability is mostly governed by the ingredients in the recipe itself.

 

[wereprawn]

There definitely is a hiss. It's not completely flat, but its not carbonated very well. It has almost no head.


It was fermented in the fermenter for just over 2 weeks, and then bottled on the 7th of May. It hasn't been refrigerated (aside from the bottles that I wanted to drink).

I primed the bottles with 2 carbonation drops in my 750ml PET bottles.


Yeah thats what I suspect. I plan on getting a couple of large esky's with a small heating element connected to an esky. Dunno how to do it but my house mate did something similar for an incubator for his chooks, so same prinicpal I guess.

I was having a chat to a guy at work, and he suggested that another potential problem could be is I've been leaving about 30-50ml at the top of my bottle when I've been bottling it. I am sure I read somewhere that you are supposed to leave a bit of room, but my work mate said don't leave gaps, just fill almost to the top and cap it. Thoughts?

A temp controlled fridge allows you to put a fermentor or two down the bottom and bottles on the top shelves to carb, at the same time! You can use your fridge to get your wort down to lager temps tor cold crash your ales too. Esky's and heating elements sound expensive and a lot of ******* around.

 

[KevinR]

Head and carbonation are not the same thing .

Totally flat beer can have a good head,the carbonation helps to maintain it. If you don't have the head forming ingredients all the co2 in the world won't help take Coke for example. Don't use sugar, instead try un hoped malt extract. I put wheat in mine, a can of wheat extract has i think 30% wheat,70% barley malt. It made big difference for me. My 2cents

 

[compassbrewer]

So in short, what could be the possible cause of my head and carbonation problem?

 

[Rocker1986]

Carbonation depends on having adequate priming sugar, enough viable yeast (which shouldn't be hard right after primary fermentation), a warm enough temperature for the yeast to work, and an airtight seal on the bottle.

^^ One or more of these requirements is not being met if the beer is not carbonated, or very lowly carbonated. As far as I'm aware, there is no other cause for lack of carbonation other than missing at least one of those 4 things.

Head retention is more to do with the ingredients in the recipe, although it won't be helped by a lack of carbonation.

 

[neo__04]

Quote - "It was fermented in the fermenter for just over 2 weeks, and then bottled on the 7th of May. It hasn't been refrigerated (aside from the bottles that I wanted to drink)."

Just ruling out the obvious thing here, your not testing the bottles that were in the fridge? Eg. You capped them, then put them straight into the fridge because they were the ones you were going to drink first...
Would be too cold to do much carbing in the fridge.

I know this most likely is not what you meant, but just ruling it out.

 

[compassbrewer]

No it was 3 weeks after sitting in the spare room before i put it in the fridge.

Ive still got a few bottles sitting in the spare room so I'll give them a go soon.

 

[Rocker1986]

Well, I think we can rule out no priming sugar since you dosed them all with a couple of carb drops. We can most likely rule out lack of viable yeast given that it had just done a primary fermentation and there should've still be plenty of them floating around in suspension at bottling time.

That leaves 2 options, either the bottles dropped too low in temperature or they are not sealed properly, or both.

Carbonation relies on fermentation in a sealed vessel. There can't be any other causes for it to fail than the ones described here.

 

[Grott]

With PET bottles and this weather I still say 3 weeks is not long enough for them to carb. up properly.

You did say "There definitely is a hiss. It's not completely flat, but its not carbonated very well."
Cheers

 

[compassbrewer]

Thanks for the help. My 3rd batch I put in glass bottles and they came out alot better. Drinkable in 5 days.

I'll leave my 2nd batch for another week and see if they get any better.