Beer In Regulator

[dafatdude]

Hello guys,

Just pouring my first brew from my new kegging setup, which one would assume would be cause for celebration. However my enthusiasm has been dulled due to some of the beer foam coming back up into the regulator when i plugged it in while it was under high pressure. We're talking a lot of foam here!

I figured that if anything should be inside it, water was perhaps marginally better, so i flushed out the rest of the foam with some clean water(not too much. didn't immerse it.).

I then tried to take apart the regulator, but i couldn't budge any of the things coming out of it. I then tried pushing CO2 through the lines when they weren't connected to the keg to push out any extra moisture, but i'm certain there is more there.

Is there anyway to take apart the reg and fix it? or is it a return to seller. I hope not the latter, because i got the setup off ebay :S Does anyone know of a place that can look at these in perth?

I'm kinda hoping that i'm stressing over nothing, but i think i might go have a few more brews, at least then the cost of a new regulator will be less in terms of "$ / glasses of beer poured"

dafat

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

Is there anyway to take apart the reg and fix it?

Depends on the reg.

I have a CIG and a micromatic reg. Both of these were recommended by my LHBS, becasue they were fully serviceable - I can pull them apart and replace a diagphram or whatever if needed.

You may or may not have a problem. Keep an eye on your reg, watching particularly for the pressure creeping up. It will need servicing if that's happening.

Good luck,

Keith

 

[Fents]

I'd take it back and see what someone at the shop can do. either that or get the hair dryer out.

 

[pokolbinguy]

For the future get your hands on a non-return valve (check valve)

Pok

 

[SJW]

For the future get your hands on a non-return valve (check valve)

Not having a shot at you but I can't see why anyone would spend good money on any type of keg system and not put a $20 N.R.V. in.
They should come std. with regs from HBS's.

Steve

 

[Hargie]

...you'll need to pull apart to get all the beer residue out....if you don't mould may grow in there and that will infect your subsequent kegs...

 

[dafatdude]

OK thanks for the reply's guys.

It's a micromatic one. Dunno if they are serviceable..

Will look into a return valve. I've not seen one before, where do they go on the keg setup?

 

[dafatdude]

Also, can anyone link me to a site that sells them, i had a look on the websites at the top of the page but i dont know what to look for.

 

[Hargie]

...Micromatics are servicable and you can buy the replacement kits as well as check valves from Craftbrewer , link is at the top of this page...

 

[Gnome]

When i got my reg from my LHBS i wanted to get a check valve but they don't stock any, why???
Any retailers reading this, this is a great way to make a few extra bucks with every reg purchase!
I would have bought one right there and then even if it is ~$20, cheaper than a new reg!
Now I am forced to take my money elsewhere.

 

[Fents]

what shop did you go too?

 

[pint of lager]

MHB brought up a very important point when check valves were discussed some time back, that if you do have a check valve fitted, you never know what the pressure level in the keg is. You only know the pressure in the line prior to the check valve.

If you do get foam back into the regulator, this becomes a prime spot for infections to continually infect your brews. It may not rear its ugly head if your kegs are all stored very cold, but if your kegs spend any time outside, it will show up.

 

[MHB]

QUOTE
For the future get your hands on a non-return valve (check valve)


Not having a shot at you but I can't see why anyone would spend good money on any type of keg system and not put a $20 N.R.V. in.
They should come std. with regs from HBS's.

I am going to disagree, but I know there are two schools of thought.

If you put in a NRV, the pressure indicated on the gauge becomes the pressure in the reg, not necessarily the pressure in the keg. True you are less likely to get beer in the reg but you are only guessing about your carbonation.

There are also two common types of NRV:-
Spring Loaded, these have a spring that holds a face or ball seal in place, they stop most liquid intrusions, however they easily get held open by even the smallest trace of detritus; which means that they can stop working and you are none the wiser until you get beer in your reg.
They can become a trap for any beer foam that pushes up as far at the NRV, with the same potential for harbouring infection as mentioned above re foam in regs.

Duckbill, a silicone rubber valve that is much more reliable, also more expensive; less prone to jamming open but the housing is a potential harbour for infection. Has a larger pressure drop across the valve than do Spring Loaded NRV's up to 30 kPa as apposed to 5-10 kPa

If you take a little care when connecting a new keg, you shouldn't have any problems, make sure the keg has had time to cool (overnight) vent the PRV on the keg and then connect to your gas.

I have had less than half a dozen people in with foamed regs, thats in eight years of working in home brew shops and after selling I dont know how many hundreds of keg systems.

Personally I would rather know exactly how much pressure I have in my system and exercise just a little care.

MHB

 

[Gnome]

never thought about it that way
i guess the nrv would chew up some pressuer hey..

 

[lucas]

MHB brought up a very important point when check valves were discussed some time back, that if you do have a check valve fitted, you never know what the pressure level in the keg is. You only know the pressure in the line prior to the check valve.

well that clears up something I've been wondering about for a while. always confused me that I could crank the reg up and then back down again but the pressure coming out at the tap would remain way too high. not sure I'll be taking the check valve out of the system but just yet

 

[Ross]

I am going to disagree, but I know there are two schools of thought.

If you put in a NRV, the pressure indicated on the gauge becomes the pressure in the reg, not necessarily the pressure in the keg. True you are less likely to get beer in the reg but you are only guessing about your carbonation.

There are also two common types of NRV:-
Spring Loaded, these have a spring that holds a face or ball seal in place, they stop most liquid intrusions, however they easily get held open by even the smallest trace of detritus; which means that they can stop working and you are none the wiser until you get beer in your reg.
They can become a trap for any beer foam that pushes up as far at the NRV, with the same potential for harbouring infection as mentioned above re foam in regs.

Duckbill, a silicone rubber valve that is much more reliable, also more expensive; less prone to jamming open but the housing is a potential harbour for infection. Has a larger pressure drop across the valve than do Spring Loaded NRV's up to 30 kPa as apposed to 5-10 kPa

If you take a little care when connecting a new keg, you shouldn't have any problems, make sure the keg has had time to cool (overnight) vent the PRV on the keg and then connect to your gas.

I have had less than half a dozen people in with foamed regs, thats in eight years of working in home brew shops and after selling I dont know how many hundreds of keg systems.

Personally I would rather know exactly how much pressure I have in my system and exercise just a little care.

MHB

& I'm from the other school on this one

I get at least 1 call/email a week from guys that have beer through their regs - I believe I'm careful, but had done it twice myself before fitting a valve.

The chance of a bit of dirt coming out your food grade CO2 cylinder & blocking open your return valve, especially when they get a good blast whilst force carbonating, is HIGHLY unlikely IMO (but yes I guess it could happen).

If the pressure on your kegs falls (the most likely senario) the regulator will fall inline with the drop in carbonation even with the return valve there. In what circumstance are you wanting to monitor a higher pressure than your dispensing pressure, or am i missing something?

I reckon they are one of the most important parts in kegging set up & certainly wouldn't be without mine.

Cheers Ross

 

[Ross]

well that clears up something I've been wondering about for a while. always confused me that I could crank the reg up and then back down again but the pressure coming out at the tap would remain way too high. not sure I'll be taking the check valve out of the system but just yet

Lucas,

Your above senario wouldn't alter one bit, with or without a check valve. If you crank up the reg & then back down again, the pressure in the line isn't going to travel back into your cylinder if the valve isnt there.

cheers Ross

 

[MHB]

As I said there are two schools of thought
I stock NRV's for those that want them, I just recommend good procedures, rather than relying on a device that will at some time fail.

To my mind the down side of a NRV is the same as that for any other prophylactic (it can give one a false sense of security while being screwed)

The cheaper spring ones are a great trap for detritus, the same foam that could have gotten into the regulator winds up in the housing of the NRV - I don't think anyone ever cleans/sanitises a NRV, nor ever does any maintenance on them. I have traced infection to this source, and have cleaned out several that were full of bad smelling goup.
Some were so clogged up with dried foam that were jammed open - negating there effectiveness.

Even the better duckbill types are a potential haven for infection as foam can get into the housing and as I said above, I don't think anyone ever dose any maintenance on a NRV.

It is rare to have dirt coming out of the regulator but swarf from threads, especially plastic threads; small parings of line material and the like can cause problems, tho I acknowledge that most problems come from the other side.
NRV's are just as prone to blocking as the poppet on you kegs' gas post - in fact they are very similar in design, we have I am sure all had poppets not seal.

In what circumstance are you wanting to monitor a higher pressure than your dispensing pressure, or am i missing something

Exactly my point, under no circumstances do you want pressure in the keg to be higher than your serving pressure.
If the pressure in the kegs is higher than your set pressure with a NRV you can't monitor it - that's why you buy gages - to tell you the pressure on the beer, not to tell you the pressure in the line up to the NRV.

Personally I "Soft Gas" - condition at serving pressure, it just requires an extra gas point and some patience but you never get over/under-carbonated beer.
A lot of people cask condition by priming the kegs, it would be wrong to assume that everyone, or even a majority of people force carbonate.

I have tried both and prefer the choices I have made; I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong, or a brewers IQ test; just different ways of achieving the same outcomes.
Both points of view have pros and cons.

If you want to use a NRV remember to clean it, the gas lines and the inside of your disconnects as part of your regular maintenance programme.

MHB

 

[Graham E]

Depends on the reg.

I have a CIG and a micromatic reg. Both of these were recommended by my LHBS, becasue they were fully serviceable - I can pull them apart and replace a diagphram or whatever if needed.

You may or may not have a problem. Keep an eye on your reg, watching particularly for the pressure creeping up. It will need servicing if that's happening.

Good luck,

Keith

Hi

I also have a problem with beer flowing back through my Micromatic regulator and have found a small amount of rust leaking out of the hole under the pressure screw. Looks like I'll have to take it apart. My question is, how easy is this to do for a non-technic? Is there anything to look out for or avoid?

Thanks

Graham E

 

[OSF]

Hey Guys,

The micromatic reg is easy to pull apart and if you do it pretty quickly after you flood it, the only thing you have to replace is a fibrer washer (which only cost about $1.00 each directly from the local sydney importer). You don't need the whole seal replacement kit unless you leave it too long.

When I pull my reg apart I use the following diagram from micromatic to ensure I put everything back in the correct position.

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/r...rs-pid-642.html

Cheers
OSF