Bakers yeast

[Maheel]

i've also found lowans etc likes it very much at about +-28'c and if your below 20 it slows right down

it pretty tolerant to abuse but....

 

[Danwood]

ITT: noone who has brewed with bread yeast.

That's it, one of my cubes is getting a 1/4 tin of Lowan's finest. I'll report results in a couple weeks.

Not the RIS cube !

 

[jphowman]

I've read on here about adding used beer yeast in the last ten minutes of the boil to give the yeastes some extra nutrition.
Is this true?

IIRC one of the White brothers was asked about this on one of the Sessions. They didn't rate it too highly. The boil will kill the yeast but doesn't explode the cell, leaving most of the nutrients trapped inside.

 

[QldKev]

Dead yeast is also an incomplete nutrient, so in my opinion it's a waste of time. Real yeast nutrient is very cheap.

 

[NewtownClown]

Call me crazy, but I use yeast nutrients for yeast nutrients.

... and many of those packaged nutrients contain yeast hulls. As stated, they are not a complete "diet", however they are better than none
I think the idea of their usefulness has come from wine production where they get used for stuck ferments

 

[QldKev]

Getting back ontopic...

It will be interesting to see what dent comes back with for tasting on this. I've been wanting to do a beer on bread yeasts for a couple of years as it had been talked about many times on here, and most people have seemed against it. Next time I ferment something that I think would suit it, I'm thinking of throwing a few liters in a small container and pitching some Lowans to do a side by side. I think the first one may not be the best it will be more about learning the yeast style.

 

[dent]

I've got a cube with brown malt and bittering hops only which should be pretty forgiving for any wierd yeasty efforts. I'll swing past the store today for a fresh tin - don't think I'll use the one I've been dipping a flour-y spoon into. Interesting info about the fermenting temperature - I'll stick with normal ale temps unless it shows signs of slowing down too much.

 

[Midnight Brew]

Sounds like a good experiment. Possibly something where the yeast will shine so pils/ale malt 100% then a bittering and flavour addition of something clean (I'm thinking magnum) then let the yeast do its thing. Then could also split it further and do different temps.

 

[TimT]

i've also found lowans etc likes it very much at about +-28'c and if your below 20 it slows right down


Yeah, we make bread fairly regularly. And I've observed in these cooler months that the action of the yeast on the dough is much less vigorous than in the warmer months we've just had. Could be a good ambient temperature beer to try; I like Queensland Kev's theory that it could end up having saison qualities.

 

[Bribie G]

When I ran a LHBS in the late 1970s in Maryborough, a common brew was Saunders Malt and Tandaco bread yeast. Made beer. Sort of.
With absolutely no temperature control in Central Queensland I can imagine that the fermentation temps actually favoured bread yeast.

 

[technobabble66]

Dead yeast is also an incomplete nutrient, so in my opinion it's a waste of time. Real yeast nutrient is very cheap.

Can this be explained, please.
We require nutrients to make more yeast cells, so we're talking about breaking up dead yeast cells to provide those nutrient. To make more cells. So surely the dead ones will have the nutrients required to make new ones, or am i missing something here? Or are there particular rate-limiting nutrients supplied by the Nutrient supplements?
As a nutritionalist, i'm thinking along the lines of human supplements (~yeast nutrient supplement) just boosting a few nutrients, whereas real whole foods (~ dead yeast cells) boost the full spectrum of nutrients.
Obviously there is an issue of one dead cell only provides the nutrition for 1 new cell, so i can see there's a need to use lots of dead yeast cells to provide for lots of new cells. Is the Yeast Nutrient supposedly providing a boost to 1 or 2 key (undersupplied) nutrients?

Apologies for being :icon_offtopic:

 

[peas_and_corn]

Yeast consume nutrients such as vitamins, they don't just get stored up, there's a reason the yeast needs it in the first place. Humans need vitamin c, but if you killed your neighbor and ate him, you won't get much vitamin c from his corpse.

 

[TimT]

I often find talk about yeast nutrient very confusing. Yeast need nitrogen. Also oxygen. Hang on, they need free amino nitrogen. Yeast love folate! etc, etc. Sorry, but for a non-scientific person such as myself (I've forgotten more than I ever knew about chemistry!), the tossing about of terms makes the subject quite difficult to deal with. The somewhat cavalier way these terms get tossed out doesn't exactly lead brewers into outright contradiction, but it can lead to conflicting advice (check out the Northern Brewer blog where they recommend *not* rehydrating dry yeast because it strips the yeast of some of the free amino nitrogen) or outright error (I once said on these forums 'free ammonium nitrate' instead of 'free amino nitrogen', and got the reply 'Pretty sure you are not looking for ammonium nitrate. Thats what I use at work mixed with diesel to make things explode'! Whoopsie!) So often, we have to resort to educated guesswork.

It reminds me of HIllaire Belloc's words about the microbe:

Oh! Let no-one ever ever doubt
What nobody is sure about!

 

[manticle]

That's one guy in that blog with some fairly out of place assertions and nothing to back them up.

When he (not 'they') recommended avoiding vorlauf because you will create HSA and encourage stuck fermentations and gushers, I lost interest.

Yeast need various things for optimum function. Some of these are contained naturally in the mash (magnesium and FAN for example) some aren't (like zinc for example). Yeast nutrient is one, easy thing to add that can help and will not harm your brew. The science around it is not that complicated, depending on how far you wish to delve.

 

[QldKev]

The way I understand it, dead yeast cells are sources for sterols and unsaturated fatty acids. But as mentioned above there are many other vitamins and minerals such as phosphate they don't store, hence the need for another supplement.

This is a cool read

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

, but it can lead to conflicting advice (check out the Northern Brewer blog where they recommend *not* rehydrating dry yeast because it strips the yeast of some of the free amino nitrogen)

Noooooo.......dont tell them hydraters....could end up with 11 pages of epicness...

 

[mrsupraboy]

We're at 4 so far Iol

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You should read the "other" thread....

 

[pk.sax]

What about a drop of olive oil?

Seen bread yeast go mental when I added a drop in their dying party...

 

[technobabble66]

This is very OT, so apologies! But I'm on the phone & couldn't easily find a better thread to post it.
I found this in a wine site while reading about yeast nutrition. It could be relevant in general yeast health, but especially in high OG brews:

During fermentation the yeast membrane becomes affected by alcohol and becomes more and more permeable or “leaky” as the alcohol content increases. This makes it more difficult for the yeast to take up and retain nitrogen as the fermentation progresses. Making the yeast membrane stronger at the start of fermentation can reduce the permeability problem. This can be improved by the presence of oxygen, which enables the yeast to make more survival factors such as sterols and long chain fatty acids that protect the membrane.

From:
http://www.vintessential.com.au/resources/articles/yeast-nutrition-and-successful-fermentations.html