Backsweetening cider/ginger beer with Stevia

[Airgead]

We don't need the laxative emoticon...

Sweet cider is not an easy thing to do. If you want to sweeten in the bottle then you pretty much need to go artificial (unless you do funky stuff like pasturise or sterile filter and force carb) trouble is, many people find the artificial sweeteners offensive. Lactose works well but as you say, can end badly if the drinker is lactose intolerant. Maltodextrin is only partially unfermentable so that's not a good way to go unless you add it in fermentation.

There are some traditional methods for making sweet ciders but they rely on you pressing your own juice. If you keg and can force carb you can do it slightly easier as you can kill off the yeast through heat or chemicals then carb it up.

Other than that, your best bet is to sweeten in the glass as you serve.

Cheers
Dave

 

[nathan_madness]

Yeah, I sterilise then back sweeten in the keg. It's just so much easier!

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Yeah I dont know how that would go.... Here my dear just let me slip this in your drink .......

I was just hoping to find an sweetener that tasted alright it small doeses. Oh well thanks for the help guys.

 

[technobabble66]

Hey JoeyJoeJoe,

FWIW, i found the stevia to be good when it was used in very small amounts - it meant the sweetness took a little edge off the heat in the Ginger Beer (i know you're doing Cider, but should be kinda similar), but without being prominent enough to be nasty.

From what Hyper.Intelligent.Fish was writing earlier, the dosage i'd go with is 2g pure stevia in a 18L batch. (The regular dosage is 4g - this was too much for me).

Either which way though, we're still talking an artificial-type sweetener/flavouring - Stevia's just the better choice in this group IMHO. So if your drinking partner cannot stand artificial sweeteners, like in a Diet Coke, then this won't work.


[edit: corrected the batch size to 18L]

 

[proudy]

Hello I recently kegged a mangrove jacks kit and did not add the sweetener pack as i like a dry cider. turned out dryer than i could handle.just bought a 200 tablet pack of stevia and crushed half a tap to a pot and stirred , spot on now

 

[simchop84]

Has anyone tried using a combination of artificial sweeteners? For example some lactose some stevia etc. I also like things on the sweeter side, not just cider coffee etc too. Im thinking of buying some sorbitol from Melbourne food depot.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I just put a 5L brew down consisting of 4.8L of woolies apple and pear juice (74/26) and 5 teaspoons of the equal stevia spoon for spoon stuff. I also did a graf, 4L of apple juice with 1 L of wort.
Sorry for huge picture I am not at home Cider on the left Beer in the middle Graf on the right

 

[Hyper.Intelligent.Fish]

*Update.

Combining multiple experiments.

I've had 4 batches of 3L ciders fermenting since Aug 21 consisting of Apple with Bakers yeast, Apple with Champagne yeast, Apple with Ale yeast and Apple Blackcurrant with Ale yeast.

Each batch was racked into 5 475ml Grolsch swingtop bottles, bulk primed with brown sugar at 13g/L.

2 bottles from each batch were backsweetened with 1 level teaspoon of the Splenda Stevia/Maltodextrin blend I mentioned before.

2 bottles from each batch were backsweetened with 1/2 teaspoon Stevia/Maltodextrin blend.

The remaining bottle was left unsweetened as a control.

Obviously there won't be any concrete results until after 3-4 weeks of maturation, but I'm hoping to be able to compare batches against each other, and also compare the amount of stevia additives within each batch. Against all of this I'm trying to work out whether champagne or ale yeast is preferable for a sweeter cider.

My next experiment will be to add the stevia/maltodextrin blend at the same time as the yeast is pitched to determine whether the fermentation process makes a difference to the final brew.

Stay tuned.

 

[Hyper.Intelligent.Fish]

Has anyone tried using a combination of artificial sweeteners? For example some lactose some stevia etc. I also like things on the sweeter side, not just cider coffee etc too. Im thinking of buying some sorbitol from Melbourne food depot.

You might end up with the worst of all of them.

I'm experimenting with Stevia because I want my brews to be enjoyed by everyone, even the lactose intolerant. I'm no expert, but I believe that lactose is the preferred method of backsweetening because it's a natural sugar that's unfermentable. Artificial sweeteners are artificial, and add unwanted tastes and textures to the final product.

To clarify though, Lactose and Stevia are not artificial sweeteners. They're both natural sugars that aren't fermentable.

I'm interested to hear your opinions about sorbitol. It was another option I'd considered, but heard that it may be a laxative...

 

[law-of-ohms]

Awesome, nice to see your experimenting and 'taking one for the team'

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I am really interested to hear how you go. I am just a bit worried as 13g/l of sugar is already pretty high and I think maltodextrin is partially fermentable. Maybe put the bottles in the fridge after a week to drop the pressure?
Worst comes to worst you will be able to tell us what the failure mode of a grolsh bottle is( I have always wondered if the swing top would let go before the glass broke would be like a safety fuse!)

 

[Hyper.Intelligent.Fish]

I am really interested to hear how you go. I am just a bit worried as 13g/l of sugar is already pretty high and I think maltodextrin is partially fermentable. Maybe put the bottles in the fridge after a week to drop the pressure?
Worst comes to worst you will be able to tell us what the failure mode of a grolsh bottle is( I have always wondered if the swing top would let go before the glass broke would be like a safety fuse!)

I was aiming at a higher carbed end result than my previous batches. I aimed before for a 2.0 CO2 level, this time I was aiming for 4.5. To get a 4.5 CO2 level at the current temp the required cane/table suger was almost 15g/L. I under-primed deliberately because the stevia/maltodextrin blend is an unknown variable.

That being said, all the bottles are stored in a chest of drawers with nice, solid walls. A popped bottle will be a pain to clean up, but there shouldn't be a lot of damage.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Wouldn't hurt to test one after a week see if the bottles are gushers

 

[simchop84]

Sorry hyper my mistake, I am aware that lactose etc is natural. I could have worded it a bit better.

In regards to sorbitol I haven't done a great deal of research about but from what I can gather its what makes fruit sweet anyway. Stone fruit I believe are on the upper end of the scale. Pears are slightly higher than apples.

Sorbitol is used in a large amount of every day things, even in gum. Im guessing thats why there is a warning on extra gum about it may have a laxative effect. Used in baking a lot because it doesn't burn or is very good at giving that 'golden' colour to the final product.

As far as brewing is concerned from what I can gather it seems to be the best option for us sweet tooths. The laxative effect I feel would only be an issue if you were adding large amounts.

 

[simchop84]

Dumb newbie questions but how do I get someone else's comment in my reply?
Cheers

 

[Hyper.Intelligent.Fish]

Dumb newbie questions but how do I get someone else's comment in my reply?
Cheers

At the bottom of every post is a "quote" button. Click on that, and it'll open up a new reply for the thread with the previous post quoted.

 

[simchop84]

At the bottom of every post is a "quote" button. Click on that, and it'll open up a new reply for the thread with the previous post quoted.

Cheers mate

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I did a back sweeting experiment today. I started with about a litre of super dry pure apple juice cider that I made as part of a starter. I thought it would be a good start as it was very dry .998.
So I measure out three glasses with 100mls each of this dry cider each with one of the above sweeteners.
1. Equal Sachet : contains 1/4 teaspoon of sweetner = to two teaspoons of sugar. Sweet but also had a chemically taste 2/10
2. Equal stevia spoon for spoon: Added 1/4 teaspoon = to 1/4 teaspoons of sugar. Not very sweet but no bad after taste. Added another 1/4 teaspoon sweeter can now taste chemical flavour slightly not too bad. 5/10
3. Splenda Sachet: Sachet contains 1/4 teaspoon = 2 teaspoons of sugar. Very sweet and not too bad (too sweet would add less) this one had no chemical taste though. 8/10
4. Final experiment put 200 mls in a glass and added 1/4 teaspoon of stevia half pack of splenda(1/8 teaspoon ish). Still a bit too sweet but no off taste. 8/10

Conclusion if you are going to add only one I would go with splenda my taste buds agreed with it the best. Stevia is a close secound but the ordinary equal is just bad I would deffinitly not recommend it.

I am probably going to go with one splenda sachet + 1 teaspoon of the stevia per litre of cider when I bulk prime for my batch that is almost finished.
I dont know how fermenatble either of them are? I am bottling in champagne bottles though so I should be ok.

 

[technobabble66]

Great experiment, & good to see a bit more anecdotal comparison on sweetener options!

......
Start rant/

However, I ain't puttin' no chlorinated sugar in my body!
Look up what Splenda is: tri-chlorinated dextrose. Wikipeadia has a decent entry on it

Compare that to stevia's wiki entry.
I'll stick to stevia if I have to use a sweetener.

End rant/

 

[bum]

However, I ain't puttin' no chlorinated sugar in my body!
Look up what Splenda is: tri-chlorinated dextrose. Wikipeadia has a decent entry on it

Their entry for ethanol is pretty good too.