Back From Deutschland!

[chillimunga]

Great stuff mate and great pics as well just got back from Germany my self, best 3 weeks eva. Loved koln stayed in the hotel next door to the Gaffel house it was very convenient.Nothing like beer out of the barrel.

 

[AussieJosh]

good post mate! I really enjoyed the read and the pics! Good to hear your illness was not to serious!

 

[keifer33]

Great read a fair few laughs...some at your expense

 

[Zwickel]

Thanks a lot NewGuy for the nice report, its a pleasure reading it.

I hope you havent cought "Montezumas Revenge" already in Germany, hopefully not in the restaurant featured with the Michelin star :wacko:

Prost mate

 

[white.grant]

Great story Newguy. Really enjoyed reading it.

cheers

grant

 

[Jerry]

Great thread newguy.

Thanks very much for taking the time to write it up. :beerbang:

Hope you're over the food poisoning.

Cheers

Scott

 

[Florian]

Great read, really enjoyed it. Especially the Kln part made me wish I had paid a bit more attention to the beers when I used to live there for 2 years. Not that I didn't drink enough of them... just didn't appreciate them enough in hind side.

Loved the atmosphere there, a great city to live, and I will be taking my family there for a little round trip on our next visit to Berlin.

Florian

 

[newguy]

Glad everyone seemed to enjoy the report. Just remembered a couple of random things. It seems it's impossible to get everything down in a post all at once....

The wooden pub/brewery tables in Dusseldorf and Koln were notable because they were all the same. They weren't finished - no oil/stain/polyurethane, etc - and most seemed to be freshly sanded. Thus the coasters seemed to serve a dual purpose: the waiters kept track of how many you had by putting a pencil mark on the coaster and they actually did serve to protect the unfinished surface. Around here all the tables are finished and coasters are rarely used. We found this odd for establishments where the patrons do tend to spill...

When we did arrive in Munich we had been up for about 24h straight. The beer tasted good but boy did we get tired after a few litres of the stuff. While we were at the Hofbrauhaus beer garden I managed to make a bit of a spectacle of myself. Not only are there waitresses everywhere, but there are also vendors walking around selling sandwiches, sausages, etc from big boxes suspended on a strap over their shoulders. After simply holding up my hand and shaking my head no for the first few, the beer encouraged me to use the little bit of German I learned just for the trip. Upon seeing yet another headed my way, I held up my hand and in a loud voice said "Ich habe kein hunger." [I'm not hungry.] In hindsight, a simple "Nein, danke" would have sufficed. Anyway, the vendor takes the hint and buggers off but the young couple at the next table start giggling at me, which causes me to start laughing because I probably sounded like a complete moron. They made a point of saying a cheerful "Tchuss" [bye] when they left so I guess I couldn't have made that big a fool out of myself.

Also at Oktoberfest, a group of older men sat at the table behind us and we eventually heard them talking about us (at least we assume so because we heard "Canada.") After that one of them eventually asked if we were Canadian, so we replied that we were (in German, mind you), and then they asked if we were from Montreal. This was the first of 4 times we were asked if we from Montreal while we were in Europe. Now normally this is a huge insult to us western Canadians but we knew they didn't know that so we just told them that we were from Alberta - Edmonton. They seemed to know where that was, which greatly impressed us ["West?" "Ja!"].

A little after this we decided to get a giant pretzel but we had no idea if they were actually called pretzels or not. Our little German phrase book didn't have them in it either, so we asked this same group what they were called. They immediately called a waitress over and told her to bring us one, which we greatly appreciated. Unfortunately we still didn't know their proper German name.

The security guards at the Oktoberfest pavilions are generally quite humourless and very business-like, but even they enjoyed the occasional beer whilst on duty. We got a big kick out of that.

Teams of 5-10 people are a common sight at Oktoberfest. The matching shirts give them away. The organizational skills this requires, especially of a bunch of inebriated individuals, is impressive. And even though I don't speak Italian, I got the drift of one young Italian gentleman's wording on the back of his shirt.....It involved him doing something vulgar to my mother, and I definitely understood that. Some phrases are universal.

From our observations, there are precisely three people in Europe that don't smoke.

In German elevators, 0 = lobby/main floor, and -1 = basement. I found that very amusing. Almost as amusing as the little sign you hang on your hotel room's doorknob to request that your room be cleaned. In German they read "Bitte Zimmer Aufraumen." Now "bitte" is please, "zimmer" is room, and although I don't exactly know what "Aufraumen" means, I can't help but notice that it contains "Frau" which, naturally, is woman. I really got a kick out of "Please make up room now" appearing just under what I translate to be "Please womanize the room."

The taxi drivers in Europe are completely insane. Fun, but insane.

A lot of young Canadians work in Amsterdam. Sort of like how Banff here in Canada contains a lot of young Australians.

The homeless in Europe are way more polite than the homeless here in Canada. Actually the homeless here border on being muggers with the manner they approach people.

...That's all I can remember for now. I know once I hit "Add Reply" I'll think of something I've missed.... <_<

 

[stm]

A great read, thanks newguy. Must get to Koln and Dusseldorf...

 

[pk.sax]

Those are spelled 'brezen'. Although, if you say pretzel they usually understand. Close enough sounding, like Pfeffer for pepper.

 

[Zwickel]

Glad everyone seemed to enjoy the report. Just remembered a couple of random things. It seems it's impossible to get everything down in a post all at once....

The wooden pub/brewery tables in Dusseldorf and Koln were notable because they were all the same. They weren't finished - no oil/stain/polyurethane, etc - and most seemed to be freshly sanded. Thus the coasters seemed to serve a dual purpose: the waiters kept track of how many you had by putting a pencil mark on the coaster and they actually did serve to protect the unfinished surface.

yeah, thats right. In Germany it would be a PITA to pay instantly for each drink you get, means thats a waste of time/ressources. The coaster everyone gets, is a bill as well. Everything that youre consuming whilst youre in the location, will be written on the coaster and should be payed when you leave. Some customers even leave their bill in the pub until next time, means they are living on credit.

..... The beer tasted good but boy did we get tired after a few litres of the stuff.

after a few liters I wouldnt be tired only

......I held up my hand and in a loud voice said "Ich habe kein hunger." [I'm not hungry.] In hindsight, a simple "Nein, danke" would have sufficed. Anyway, the vendor takes the hint and buggers off but the young couple at the next table start giggling at me, which causes me to start laughing because I probably sounded like a complete moron.

:lol:

To say "Ich habe kein hunger." [I'm not hungry.] is deeply dialectical. Thats why they were giggling. The most of German say so, although it is grammattically completely wrong. The right words would be "Ich bin nicht hungrig"......but 90% of the German are using the wrong version.

They made a point of saying a cheerful "Tchuss" [bye] when they left so I guess I couldn't have made that big a fool out of myself.

Dont worry, to hear such dialectical words from a foreigner is just a little bit funny.

....A little after this we decided to get a giant pretzel but we had no idea if they were actually called pretzels or not. Our little German phrase book didn't have them in it either, so we asked this same group what they were called. They immediately called a waitress over and told her to bring us one, which we greatly appreciated. Unfortunately we still didn't know their proper German name.

Pretzel (english) = Bretzel (german) almost the same pronunciation.

....In German elevators, 0 = lobby/main floor, and -1 = basement. I found that very amusing.

thats logical: Zero level is flat to the earth/street, minus 1 is cellar or even lower like -2 or -3

Almost as amusing as the little sign you hang on your hotel room's doorknob to request that your room be cleaned. In German they read "Bitte Zimmer Aufraumen." Now "bitte" is please, "zimmer" is room, and although I don't exactly know what "Aufraumen" means, I can't help but notice that it contains "Frau" which, naturally, is woman. I really got a kick out of "Please make up room now" appearing just under what I translate to be "Please womanize the room."

:lol:

Aufraumen hahahaha.... never had such a good laugh

correct: aufrumen "make up the room"


Thanks again Newguy, its a wonderful report :icon_chickcheers:

 

[manticle]

Good descriptions - hope your guts are all good now.

Zwickel - OT but do you have any tips or recipes for good altbier? About to make smurto's effort this weekend but curious about your perspective.

 

[newguy]

If you're after an authentic Dusseldorf Alt, I can help you out.

Grist: prior to my trip I would have used quite a bit (up to 30-40%) of Munich malt but now that I've tasted authentic stuff, that should be cut back to maybe 5% at most with the balance being either pilsner malt (preferred) or pale 2 row. Add just enough dark malt (either carafa or pale chocolate or chocolate or even roasted barley) to get the authentic colour (orange to copper). My gut tells me that you shouldn't need more than 60g for a 20l batch, but use some brewing s/w to calculate the right amount for the target colour. From the flavours I was getting in the Alts I tried, any of these dark malts would be appropriate. Even a touch of peated malt would be okay as Fuchschen was a tad peaty.

Mash at a very low temperature to create a very fermentable wort - the finished beer has to be dry dry dry. 62-63C wouldn't be too low. Shoot for a 1.050ish OG.

Dusseldorf Alts feature the bittering and flavour hop additions. There is some small amount of hop aroma, but it's low. Shoot for 40-45 IBU total, with roughly 60-70% coming from the bittering addition and the balance from a 20 minute flavour addition. Throw in maybe 30g of a noble variety at flameout to get the low aroma. Even though the bitterness is very assertive, it's also very clean. Don't use american varieties to bitter or flavour this beer unless they're one of the american "noble" varieties like Crystal or Mt Hood.

Use a very attenuative Alt/Kolsch strain. Wyeast 2565 would be ideal, but keep the temperature on the low side - no more than maybe 18-19C to keep the esters very low. Also be sure to pitch a large starter to also help keep the esters on the low side. The authentic Alts don't have esters. I bought two packs of the special release Wyeast 2575 Kolsch II a couple of months ago but reading its description it seems that it may be better suited to brewing a Northern German Alt instead.

Finally, if you really want to be authentic, throw some oak chips (maybe 30g) into your fermenter for the final week before you keg/bottle. All the Alts I sampled were dispensed from oak casks.

PS: Manticle (and others who asked): Yes, my gut is pretty much okay now. Things are normal again but my stomach still hurts a tad every now and again.

 

[manticle]

Thanks for those tips. I'll have a play with those ideas this weekend.

glad gut ist gut.

 

[mje1980]

Hey manticle, i was at a local bottlo ( good one ) and found a brown swing top bottle of "Altenmunsten". Not much other info ( dont read german that great ). I figured it might be an alt, and expected an amber colour, but to my surprise, it was more golden yellow than anything. Very dry, and malty, but with some bitterness. Was like DAB, but heaps better. Not really sure if was even an alt, but thought it might help. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[jbirbeck]

If you're after an authentic Dusseldorf Alt, I can help you out.

Grist: prior to my trip I would have used quite a bit (up to 30-40%) of Munich malt but now that I've tasted authentic stuff, that should be cut back to maybe 5% at most with the balance being either pilsner malt (preferred) or pale 2 row. Add just enough dark malt (either carafa or pale chocolate or chocolate or even roasted barley) to get the authentic colour (orange to copper). My gut tells me that you shouldn't need more than 60g for a 20l batch, but use some brewing s/w to calculate the right amount for the target colour. From the flavours I was getting in the Alts I tried, any of these dark malts would be appropriate. Even a touch of peated malt would be okay as Fuchschen was a tad peaty.

Mash at a very low temperature to create a very fermentable wort - the finished beer has to be dry dry dry. 62-63C wouldn't be too low. Shoot for a 1.050ish OG.

Dusseldorf Alts feature the bittering and flavour hop additions. There is some small amount of hop aroma, but it's low. Shoot for 40-45 IBU total, with roughly 60-70% coming from the bittering addition and the balance from a 20 minute flavour addition. Throw in maybe 30g of a noble variety at flameout to get the low aroma. Even though the bitterness is very assertive, it's also very clean. Don't use american varieties to bitter or flavour this beer unless they're one of the american "noble" varieties like Crystal or Mt Hood.

Use a very attenuative Alt/Kolsch strain. Wyeast 2565 would be ideal, but keep the temperature on the low side - no more than maybe 18-19C to keep the esters very low. Also be sure to pitch a large starter to also help keep the esters on the low side. The authentic Alts don't have esters. I bought two packs of the special release Wyeast 2575 Kolsch II a couple of months ago but reading its description it seems that it may be better suited to brewing a Northern German Alt instead.

Finally, if you really want to be authentic, throw some oak chips (maybe 30g) into your fermenter for the final week before you keg/bottle. All the Alts I sampled were dispensed from oak casks.

PS: Manticle (and others who asked): Yes, my gut is pretty much okay now. Things are normal again but my stomach still hurts a tad every now and again.

To keep the esters low on the 2565 I'd saw 16 or under. once it hits about 17/18 it can go into overdrive with fruit from my experience. Love it but if you want lower esters lower the temp.

the Kolsch II is much the same from the brews I've done with it so far. If it gets to 18 its ester heaven (love the aroma and flavours it throws) so drop it well below that and it will be much cleaner. I may do an alt this weekend based on the above as I have been going the other with increasing munich malt.

I'd probably suggest going FWH to get low hop aroma rather than late additions but that's just me.

I love mashing down at 62/63 because you get a great dry finish and if you've got your recipe right it still provides a good mouthfeel and good malt.

 

[Swinging Beef]

...brown swing top bottle of "Altenmunsten".

Not a bad beer, but its a helles lager or bavarian pilsner, not an alt.

 

[newguy]

To keep the esters low on the 2565 I'd saw 16 or under. once it hits about 17/18 it can go into overdrive with fruit from my experience. Love it but if you want lower esters lower the temp.

You're right. I flubbed when I wrote 18/19C.

Thanks for the tips regarding 2575.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but in case anyone else is seriously considering a European beer trip, the website I found most useful is this pub guide. It's a wee bit dated but still very useful.

 

[Eater]

Looks like you had a fantastic trip (minus the aformentioned unmentionable) to the land of great beers and fine foods
For those considering a trip to Munich, for beer, try and nail down a copy of "The beer drinkers guide to Munich" it helped us plan out our trip far in advance and helped to choose a hotel close to the Hauptbahnhof for ease of transport to all the beer gardens.
We were also mistaken for anything but Aussies up to an including lost English tourists who didnt know that Oktoberfest was still two weeks away (we were there early to avoid such massive crowds and sample beer gardens rather than the festival atmosphere).
Well worth the mega transit hours required to get there and back

 

[Steve]

Thanks for sharing Newguy. A great read and great pics. Nice one!
Cheers
Steve