Bacchus Brewing Dubbel - a few questions?

[MiLK_MaN]

Hi all,

First time post so go easy on me

I've brewed up a couple of fresh wort kits now, and next up will be a Bacchus Brewing Dubbel that I'll combine with a Mangrove Jacks M41 yeast.

I have a chest freezer with a Mangrove Jacks temp controller, so all good on that front. I was planning on getting the wort to 18C and pitching yeast, then raising temp by a degree each day for 4 days until 22C then add the candy syrup that I've got.

For my last couple of brews, I've fermented in primary for 3 weeks, then cold crash for a week then keg. I don't plan on drinking this straight away as I've read numerous articles that cellaring Dubbels benefit from quite a few months of being left alone and I'll probably start drinking this around June or July.

A couple of questions I have:

- Some people have suggested you can primary dubbels for 6 weeks. I have no issues with waiting that long, so if there's benefit in doing it I will.
- Once I cold crash and keg, what is the ideal temp to store the keg at? I'm on the Gold Coast and ambient temps are usually around 25C - 26C in the house which I think is too high. I have no issues re-using the chest freezer and storing at say 10C (or recommend some other temp) for about 3 months before I look to re-use it to brew another FWK.

 

[Garfield]

I've used M41 on a dubbel and it's fine to ferment at 25°C for that phenolic Belgian character. You'll save on electricity too.

I wouldn't primary for 6 weeks. It's best not to leave anything on the yeast cake that long. Do you generally rack to a secondary during fermentation?

What's your reason for the late addition of syrup?

Garf

 

[MiLK_MaN]

Thanks for the info. I've done heaps of reading in the last day or two trying to work out how I wanted to brew this FWK, everything from a step up temp to some top figure temp (ie. 28C) or just letting it go wild. Seems the Belgians brew in all sorts of different ways, I'm likely to pitch @ 18C, and let increase in temp 2C a day until it hits 25C - 26C.

I haven't racked to a secondary, just been leaving on primary for 3 weeks then kegging. From what I understand at higher temps this yeast is going to do its work pretty quickly, so perhaps 3 weeks is again enough and then I can keg and leave for 3 months at about 10C before refrigerating and carbonating.

On the late addition of syrup, it's actually the recommendation they gave me, and is listed on their website.

Description:
Bacchus Dubbel - Fresh Wort Kit (Approx SG 1060. Alc 7.4% with sugar addition)
Belgian Malts have been used to produce this award winning Belgian Dubbel.
We recommend adding one 500ml bottle of Belgian Dark II Candi Syrup 4 days into
ferment, which will bring the alcohol up to approx 7.4% & give the balance required.
Regular sugar (600gm) may be substituted, but won't be as good.

 

[Reedy]

Do you have any thick glass bottles (e.g. old xxxx tallies)?

I'd be tempted to bottle condition a dubbel rather than kegging, you could put a few away for a much longer period & see how they develop over time without without taking up a keg/tap for ages (but that's just my 2 cents).

 

[MiLK_MaN]

I've got a few dozen grolsch style bottles, but isn't a keg just a big bottle anyway?

 

[goatchop41]

I wouldn't primary for 6 weeks. It's best not to leave anything on the yeast cake that long. Do you generally rack to a secondary during fermentation?

I call bollocks on this. 6 weeks isn't too long. Plenty of brewers out there leaving beers in primary for >2 months with no issues. Don't try to play the autolysis card either. It's not long enough and there certainly isn't enough pressure from that volume of beer to cause appreciable numbers of cell deaths.
A secondary is completely unnecessary, it only adds an opportunity for introduction of oxygen and contamination

 

[Coodgee]

^Ok then. I can see you feel strongly about this...

 

[mongey]

FWIW

I haven't used M41 but have a Belgian IPA brewing with M31 right now. was going to use M41 but shop was out

my OG was 1060 and it chewed through that down to 1006 in under 6 days .yeast is a monster, guessing m41 will be similar , airlock was bubbling like a machine gun .dry hopped it and hopefully I'll bottle this weekend if I get time which will be 2 weeks in the fermenter .

I just got it to 24 and pitched the yeast ,I'm lazy with that stuff , fridge was set to 22 and the fermenter temp gauge sat about 23 for the week

I don't like to cold crash belgian stuff or saisons . think the yeastyness is part of the experience

will def try not to touch them in the bottles for a month though to settle. for me thats a good effort. nothing lasts 3 months

 

[Garfield]

I call bollocks on this. 6 weeks isn't too long. Plenty of brewers out there leaving beers in primary for >2 months with no issues. Don't try to play the autolysis card either. It's not long enough and there certainly isn't enough pressure from that volume of beer to cause appreciable numbers of cell deaths.
A secondary is completely unnecessary, it only adds an opportunity for introduction of oxygen and contamination

That's cool. I agree with much of what you've said ("autolysis card" is very clever, although I've never played it).

So given my experience with this specific scenario I use language like "I wouldn't" rather than "Don't" to convey a mere opinion - which is not really a strong one.

In any case, mongey has hit the nail on the head (in my opinion). Six weeks primary is unlikely to be necessary for a 7.4% dubbel on m41 yeast. Mine would certainly be in the bottle by then FWIW.

I'm curious to see how this turns out for you. It sounds like a great brew

 

[Matplat]

I just used M41 in a belgian blond... went from 1060 down to 1008, pitched at 20 and allowed to rise to 26 within 3 days. I kegged it after 2 weeks in primary including 2 days at 0.5deg. It tastes ******* delicious, no need to wait 6 weeks! @Coodgee will get to try some and substantiate my claim if he goes to BABBS next month

 

[Coodgee]

I just used M41 in a belgian blond... went from 1060 down to 1008, pitched at 20 and allowed to rise to 26 within 3 days. I kegged it after 2 weeks in primary including 2 days at 0.5deg. It tastes ******* delicious, no need to wait 6 weeks! @Coodgee will get to try some and substantiate my claim if he goes to BABBS next month

I thought you were going to invite me over for a pint

 

[Matplat]

I thought you were going to invite me over for a pint

I just had a bloody brilliant idea, do you fancy coming over for a pint this weekend? Saturday night brew night....?