Babbs 2011 Mash Paddle "pumpkin Beer"

[bum]

Obviously some of you would want to keep your cards close to your chest in a comp but it'd be awesome if everyone could share their experiences working with pumpkin. Detailed, local info is rare as hen's teeth and the majority of the US reports discuss canned stuff which I have trouble deciding whether it is relevant to us or not. I'll be putting down a pumpkin ale around the middle of autumn (ready for early winter) and am feeling a bit lost in regards to designing the recipe and working out process. Considering a cereal (pumpkin) mash.

 

[Nick JD]

...am feeling a bit lost in regards to designing the recipe and working out process.

I've done two pumpkin beers (SWMBO is from Thanksgiving Land). Here's what I know, the rest I don't.

Keep your IBUs to well under 10; more like 0-5. The stuff should be slightly sweet.

It's got little to do with pumpkin and everything to do with pumpkin pie - which tastes like spices.

Don't pick your pumpkin on it's sweetness, pick it on its aroma/flavour. Some like to roast it to carmelise and all that - but from doing one with and one without, I've found there's a reason the yanks don't bother roasting.

The aim is to make beer that tastes like pumpkin pie. You could make pumpkin beer with carrots and mangoes (the addition of which would add a nice dimension IMO) because the flavour of all those orange things is very similar ... a few orange sweet potatoes give a much better pumpkin "flavour" IMO.

Green JAP squash are good. Dunno what the yanks use - but it ain't their big orange jackolantern ones because they don't taste of anything.

Read up on spices because the winner will have mixed them well. I think they are best added in secondary - no earlier, or their interaction/combination can be hard to predict with some volitiles driven off and others not. An excess of caramel spec malts seems to compliment the pumpkin aroma and the spices nicely.

I mashed high - seems to suit the whole "pie" thing.

I think a great pumpkin ale could be made by adding the spices and pumpkin (and aromatic sweet potato) at/toward the end of fermentation. That's my next try - as I can't see why you want to boil off all that pumpkin aroma.

 

[argon]

While not exactly giving anything away. I've done a bit of reading on some US forums about how to use pumpkin in their attempts at the Dogfish Punkin Ale. Seems as though alot are using pumkin meal in a can... Whilst not being able to find anything readily available in Oz, i did find this online How to Cook Fresh Pumpkin... as i'm sure most have already visited

Typically it looks like a can or so in the mash an about same in the boil... What that means in fresh cooked pumpkin... not sure? So i'm considering going back to BIAB for this one. I can foresee a stuck sparge otherwise.

Curious to my research was that it wasn't necessarily the pumpkin that was the hero of the beer, as NickJD has noted, it's more about the spice mix used.

Edit: started to draft post before NickJDs post

 

[Sinfathisar]

would it be wrong to actually use canned pumpkin?
http://www.usafoods.com.au/p5412/canned-go...-pack-pumpkin-/

 

[brando]

I'm thinking that ingredients should be added late to retain aroma and flavour with this one. Perhaps even using the french press method somehow

 

[Nick JD]

I forgot to talk about the spices. I used cinamon, cloves, nutmeg and ginger at a 4:1:2:4 mix. The pumpkin pie spice mixes you get in the States vary a lot in their ratios.

Two things I'd like to consider adding next are corriander seed and even a tiny bit of cumin - as these are both staples in pumpkin soup to bring out the pumpkin flavour. Also a touch of black pepper or maybe even some chipotle (smoked halapeno).

 

[bum]

a few orange sweet potatoes give a much better pumpkin "flavour" IMO.

I've read a few posts on US boards saying this. I've been considering a 50/50 mix for mine.

Dunno what the yanks use - but it ain't their big orange jackolantern ones because they don't taste of anything.

Butternut Squash (as they call it) seems to be the most common, as far as I can tell.

Read up on spices because the winner will have mixed them well. I think they are best added in secondary - no earlier, or their interaction/combination can be hard to predict with some volitiles driven off and others not. An excess of caramel spec malts seems to compliment the pumpkin aroma and the spices nicely.

In addition to the spices many US brewers suggest getting the pie base flavours is key. Graham Crackers apparently - they taste a bit like digestives to me. I was thinking high amounts of biscuit (malt, rather than actual biscuits) in combination with a large dose of light crystal.

I'd be very interested to see how all these beers get judged - surely there aren't many judges intimately acquainted with the style and possibly even fewer brewers. Best of luck to everyone having a crack.

 

[Nick JD]

I'd be very interested to see how all these beers get judged - surely there aren't many judges intimately acquainted with the style and possibly even fewer brewers. Best of luck to everyone having a crack.

That would be a concern of mine. It's not a well-defined style. I'd guess it'd be judged purely on merit - which might mean what would win in USA might lose here.

Might be better to make an APA with a hint of pumpkin rather than pumpkin pie in a glass...

 

[bradsbrew]

I forgot to talk about the spices. I used cinamon, cloves, nutmeg and ginger at a 4:1:2:4 mix. The pumpkin pie spice mixes you get in the States vary a lot in their ratios.

Two things I'd like to consider adding next are corriander seed and even a tiny bit of cumin - as these are both staples in pumpkin soup to bring out the pumpkin flavour.

Well I didnt use cloves but you got the rest. I also added them as a bittering, flavour and aroma editions to get exactly that from them. Different spices at the different times. I kept the IBU down low until I got all excited and added some high alpha hops at whirlpool then left it sit in the stainless pot all night and the pot was still hot in the morning and now its quite bitter.

Don't know what i was thinking, might have been the :chug: before and whilst brewing.

 

[bconnery]

The intention of the mash paddle is not to make a pumpkin beer in the US style per se, although I'm sure there will be some, it's to make a beer that uses pumpkin.
The idea is to see our member's exercise their creativity.
The chocolate beer category last year certainly did so!

They will be judged up to three times, probably with differing criteria in each.
I haven't read the pumpkin festival entry details but I'd imagine they'd be looking for pumpkin to bring something to the beer, but I won't know that until I read the site, and they may not have thought that far...

The winner of the mash paddle will be judged externally, so it will be on drinkability mainly.
The beers will also be judges at the club, with an emphasis on drinkability but also how well the beer fits together and how much it is what is claims to be.

I know that's all a bit loose but we aren't looking for BJCP here, just an opportunity for brewers to make some interesting beers.

 

[bum]

Didn't mean to bring the comp into question - I meant it when I said I found the situation interesting. My apologies.

Thanks for the correction on the intention of the comp - sounds great and my desire for reports on how people use the pumpkin is at least doubled now.

 

[speedie]

pumkin = jacko lanton = halloween = my birtrhday
make some real beer and leave pumkin to pie

 

[browndog]

pumkin = jacko lanton = halloween = my birtrhday
make some real beer and leave pumkin to pie

TROLL ALERT, DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

 

[bconnery]

Didn't mean to bring the comp into question - I meant it when I said I found the situation interesting. My apologies.

Thanks for the correction on the intention of the comp - sounds great and my desire for reports on how people use the pumpkin is at least doubled now.

I didn't think you where trying to bring it into question, just wanted to clarify for those who where interested how it was likely to work, as it had been raised by a number of people, and is worth re-iterating for our members as well.
Definitely no need to apologise...

Not related - I find it interesting that many people are automatically associating pumpkin with US/halloween.
I realise in beer terms it is, but I have always considered pumpkin a very Australian thing. It has always been a part of my childhood, long before the US influence was quite so strong in Australian life.
I've never had pumpkin pie, but I've been eating pumpkin all my life.

 

[bconnery]

pumkin = jacko lanton = halloween = my birtrhday
make some real beer and leave pumkin to pie

No worries at all.
Any pumkin I find I will be certain to make pie out of...
As I soon as I figure out how to find jacko and ask him what a lanton is...

 

[Paul H]

Didn't mean to bring the comp into question - I meant it when I said I found the situation interesting. My apologies.

Thanks for the correction on the intention of the comp - sounds great and my desire for reports on how people use the pumpkin is at least doubled now.

Me thinks the committee is trying to follow the yanks, what would the yanks know about beer?

If the yanks jumped off a cliff would Babbs???


Cheers

Paul

 

[bradsbrew]

Me thinks the committee is trying to follow the yanks, what would the yanks know about beer?

If the yanks jumped off a cliff would Babbs???


Cheers

Paul

Depends if there was a sea of beer at the bottom of the cliff I guess.

 

[winkle]

No worries at all.
Any pumkin I find I will be certain to make pie out of...
As I soon as I figure out how to find jacko and ask him what a lanton is...

Jacko
View attachment 43946
I'm not sure how much help he'll be :unsure:
Hmm, Lanton may refer to: * Lanton, Scottish Borders * Lanton, Missouri * Lanton, Gironde.
Must be some cryptic meaning in there somewhere I guess.

Edit : image

 

[Snow]

Me thinks the committee is trying to follow the yanks, what would the yanks know about beer?

If the yanks jumped off a cliff would Babbs???


Cheers

Paul

Without intending to criticise the committee at all, as this is a very interesting comp, I tend to agree with you Paul, and this was the first thing I thought when I head about the mash paddle style for this year. Personally, I would have liked to have seen something more along the lines of a "bush tucker" theme. ie native spices, fruits, witchetty grubs, etc....

That said, I am looking forward to trying some of the results of this year's comp (not that I will be competing, owing to half my brewing gear getting flushed down the Brisbane river :angry: )

Cheers - Snow

 

[winkle]

Without intending to criticise the committee at all, as this is a very interesting comp, I tend to agree with you Paul, and this was the first thing I thought when I head about the mash paddle style for this year. Personally, I would have liked to have seen something more along the lines of a "bush tucker" theme. ie native spices, fruits, witchetty grubs, etc....

That said, I am looking forward to trying some of the results of this year's comp (not that I will be competing, owing to half my brewing gear getting flushed down the Brisbane river :angry: )

Cheers - Snow

You could always borrow a rig Snow. Mine for example, if you want a primative setup.