Austrian Beer - Recipes For My 1st Partial?

[rendo]

Hi Guys,

Now that I am working my way up the grain chain, I have a 9L esky that I want to do my first partial in. I can mash about 2kg of grain, maybe 2.5kg if lucky.

Anyhow, my Dad is from Austria, been living in Australia now for about 45 years, migrated here etc.

He has always told me about the great beers from Austria and how nothing here rivalled them. (ducking for cover.... h34r: )
So I saved up and took him and I to Austria (1st time for me) 3.5 years ago. We shared many Austrian brews and had a great time. He really likes the Gsser Beer the best (the pale (gold colour) beer...not the dark...G-O..G-G-O..mobile..., not the dark, they always think its the dark).

I would love to know how to go about making a beer like the Austrian Gsser (pale/light) beer. Or something similar, light/gold in colour, easy to knock back litres of the stuff...(kinda like our trip really)

Is there any recommendations on ingredients (grains/malt, yeast, hops, amounts, base malt extract) or even better recipes perhaps?

I guess I could go with an Oktoberfest type beer if I cant get what I am exactly after...but anyway, it'd make his year I reckon (assuming it turns out well...haha)

Hope you can help me out....I am assuming it will be a lager, with the colder months coming up, that will be perfect, not to mention I now have a brew fridge, so I can do this at anytime of the year!

EDIT: PS....the "adambrau" avatar of mine is a beer that we drank in Innsbruck, Austria. Yes, my name is Adam. So it was rather novel, nice beer too. I dont know how an Adambrau glass ended up in my bag (made it home unbroken)...and that bus load of young contiki travellers....anyway...heading OT and this is the OP...far out!!

 

[Pete2501]

History
The story of Gosser beer begins in 1860, when Max Kober, a brewer from Graz bought a part of the...

http://www.heinekenromania.ro/en/gosser_brand

It looks like Gosser is a brand. Is there a particular type of Gosser beer you're looking for? I'm guessing because it's European that it'll be a lager.

Notes. - http://www.darvana.com/images/RAVEN_Brochure.pdf

It's 30IBUs

Sorry dude. I've been looking for the last 30+mins and couldn't find anything else other than that. I've been searching for the yeast strain but, no joy.

 

[rendo]

Hey Pete,

Thanks for looking man, I have been doing a fair bit of searching too, looks like you have found something though, 30IBUs, thought would be more, but I will make it to that

Yeah, Gosser is the brand and they basically have two beers. Pale and Dark. He likes the pale and not the dark.

I'll keep searching, maybe the guys might have a good german lager/oktoberfest partial I can tap into.

Am assuming it will be using noble hops. I have plenty of halltertau. Wondering if I should use straight LME or should I use the coopers canadian blonde kit as a base. I have one here and its pretty bland, so maybe its a good base?

http://www.heinekenromania.ro/en/gosser_brand

It looks like Gosser is a brand. Is there a particular type of Gosser beer you're looking for? I'm guessing because it's European that it'll be a lager.

Notes. - http://www.darvana.com/images/RAVEN_Brochure.pdf

It's 30IBUs

Sorry dude. I've been looking for the last 30+mins and couldn't find anything else other than that. I've been searching for the yeast strain but, no joy.

 

[Barry]

What about using a Vienna lager recipe but use a bit less specialty malts so it is a bit lighter?

 

[Screwtop]

A good read on the style if you're looking to make a Gsser Pale

http://www.byo.com/stories/recipes/recipei...s-from-the-pros

Some details:



A pale Vienna Lager recipe of 50/50 Pils/Munich would work leaving out any Cara/Crystal if using extract to maximise fermentability, around 28IBU at the top of the style guide due to the use of extract from a 60 min boil and for a little aroma 10 min@ .1g/l of the same hop as you use for bittering, maybe Hallertau. Use a good lager yeast like Munich Lager or similar.

Since the Brewery is in Styria I really wonder how Styrian Golding hops would work?

Good luck,

Screwy

 

[blackbock]

Afternoon Rendo,

What people have suggested so far is I think a little bit more exotic than Gsser pale actually is...

Aim for a golden straw colour, maybe some Carapils (or Carahell used sparingly) if you are doing a grain beer, otherwise the Canadian Blonde kit would be a good base. Don't overdo the hopping, from memory it's only about the malt profile.
There is a bit of grassy, fruity hop in the finish, but 30IBUs I would think not. I would definitely steer away from the more prominent hop varieties, personally I think Styrian Goldings would be way too ale-like.

You want a nice fizzy carbonation to clone this one, and use finings of some sort to obtain the crystal-clear appearance otherwise it might just end up looking more like homebrew than your dad's favourite.

good luck

 

[Jazman]

I would make a Muencher Helles type of beer with Hallertua hops to about 25 ibu it seems to me the Goesser pale is helles type/pils type from memory from my times at the local Austrian club

 

[Bribie G]

Austrian day to day quaffing beers are lightly hopped, brewed with adjuncts such as maize (no Reinheitsgebot, Adolf obviously forgot to impose that on them during Anschluss h34r: ). I actually got smashed on Gosser in the town of Steyr (sp?) decades ago, pleasant sweet beer but nothing to rip the shirt off your back. Took along a can of Gosser to our Club annual comps night last year and it was way way lighter and less hoppy than a German from over the border.
Yes a Canadian, some Carapils and a Southern Euro hop such as Hallertau should hit the bill. Yes and fine it to brilliance and carbonate well.
edit: Swiss Lager yeast S-189 would be great, if you can keep a brew below 16 degrees and can put it in secondary/cold crash for a couple of weeks before bottling.

 

[rendo]

Thanks so much guys, this info is great, please keep it coming

I have a ferm fridge, so cold crashing isnt a problem. I bottle, so are u pretty sure that after 3-4 weeks cold crashing there will be enough yeast in the bottle to carb up? I cold crashed my last brew for a week and its carbing up fine. (all new territory for me)

I think I am going the direction of BribieG's below post. I have all those ingredients already, (except the yeast, I will have to look around for that unless anyone has recommendations). I live close to Dave HB, and I was looking at the German Lager Yeast WLP830 or the WLP833, unless I got a tad cheaper and get the Saflager W34/709(dry), but I'd rather spend the extra if it is worth it.

I was hoping to do a proper mash, not just a steep, but really if there is no need then so be it. I still am keen to mash. Anyhow, more importantly I'd rather keep to the beer style.

What do you reckon BG and others? 250g of carapils then? 500g would be too much I think. I have only just used carapils for the first time, brewing a belgian as we speak, so I dont really know how it affects the taste yet. Will be a while yet

Austrian day to day quaffing beers are lightly hopped, brewed with adjuncts such as maize (no Reinheitsgebot, Adolf obviously forgot to impose that on them during Anschluss h34r: ). I actually got smashed on Gosser in the town of Steyr (sp?) decades ago, pleasant sweet beer but nothing to rip the shirt off your back. Took along a can of Gosser to our Club annual comps night last year and it was way way lighter and less hoppy than a German from over the border.
Yes a Canadian, some Carapils and a Southern Euro hop such as Hallertau should hit the bill. Yes and fine it to brilliance and carbonate well.
edit: Swiss Lager yeast S-189 would be great, if you can keep a brew below 16 degrees and can put it in secondary/cold crash for a couple of weeks before bottling.

 

[Pete2501]

Nice work.

I can't wait to see this beer in a glass.

 

[Screwtop]

Thanks so much guys, this info is great, please keep it coming

I have a ferm fridge, so cold crashing isnt a problem. I bottle, so are u pretty sure that after 3-4 weeks cold crashing there will be enough yeast in the bottle to carb up? I cold crashed my last brew for a week and its carbing up fine. (all new territory for me)

I think I am going the direction of BribieG's below post. I have all those ingredients already, (except the yeast, I will have to look around for that unless anyone has recommendations). I live close to Dave HB, and I was looking at the German Lager Yeast WLP830 or the WLP833, unless I got a tad cheaper and get the Saflager W34/709(dry), but I'd rather spend the extra if it is worth it.

I was hoping to do a proper mash, not just a steep, but really if there is no need then so be it. I still am keen to mash. Anyhow, more importantly I'd rather keep to the beer style.

What do you reckon BG and others? 250g of carapils then? 500g would be too much I think. I have only just used carapils for the first time, brewing a belgian as we speak, so I dont really know how it affects the taste yet. Will be a while yet

Ask 10 brewers for their opinions and get 20 replies :lol: My 2c.......... Using extract the fermentability will be lower so you need to: Either compensate/balance by upping the IBU a little (pretty sure this beer is around 19 IBU) and not using any cara/crystal type malts or use some adjuncts to increase fermentability and stick to the correct level of bittering for this beer. Addings some wheat would keep the colour down while adding to foam production and stability without adding dextrines (Carapils) and reducing fermentability. Personally I would never use Carapils in any extract recipe. The use of some sucrose (sugar/dextrose) would add fermentability and again not add colour. WLP-833 would be a great yeast, have used it in Helles beers and it's well behaved. If using s-189 beware of acetaldehyde production, ferment it on the warm side for a lager 12C Saflager 34/70 would definitely not be my choice.

As blackbock points out Styrian may be way off for this beer, just something that popped into my mind at the time due to the locatipon of the brewery. This hop is used in pale Belgians quite successfully.

Screwy

 

[rendo]

Okay, it looks like it is coming together...

Yeast: WLP-833

Extract: Coopers Canadian Blonde (about 19IBU?).....target - 30IBU

Other stuff:
500g? dextrose
250g Carapils steeped etc (but maybe not now, after screwy's thoughts)...maybe 100g?
OR
300g? of dry wheat malt? (is this what you mean screwy? or do you mean wheat grain that I need to mash either way)
200g LDME? (needed?)

Hops
Boil for 45mins - 2L
25g HT @ 45mins
15g HT @ 10mins
(i will have to check these against some program to make sure it wont overdo the IBU, maybe IanH's spreadsheet)

Method:
Will brew in ferm fridge....11-12deg. say about 3 weeks. Then gelatine/cold crash for another 3-4 weeks
Then bottle
does anyone reckon there will be enough yeast to carb up after 6-7 weeks in total in the fridge. I know he wont drink it flat!! haha :icon_vomit:

Ask 10 brewers for their opinions and get 20 replies :lol:

thats for sure, exactly what I want though, so I can weigh it all up and decide

My 2c.......... Using extract the fermentability will be lower so you need to: Either compensate/balance by upping the IBU a little (pretty sure this beer is around 19 IBU) and not using any cara/crystal type malts or use some adjuncts to increase fermentability and stick to the correct level of bittering for this beer. Addings some wheat would keep the colour down while adding to foam production and stability without adding dextrines (Carapils) and reducing fermentability.

Wheat....good idea!

Personally I would never use Carapils in any extract recipe. The use of some sucrose (sugar/dextrose) would add fermentability and again not add colour.

How come? just would like to know why is it so, IYHO I thought, (no personal experience yet) that carapils freshens up a kit, just a little, like 100g-200g, depending on style of course, but like your normal light coloured lagers/ales....

WLP-833 would be a great yeast, have used it in Helles beers and it's well behaved. If using s-189 beware of acetaldehyde production, ferment it on the warm side for a lager 12C Saflager 34/70 would definitely not be my choice.

Done....WLP-833 it is. $15 @ dave's ouch....but I will save this yeast for further brews, I have been practicing. Its easy. Unless I can find the swiss yeast, then I will toss a coin or do some more research to decide.


Screwy

 

[rendo]

Okay, it looks like it is coming together...

Yeast: WLP-833
.
.
.
Method:
Will brew in ferm fridge....11-12deg. say about 3 weeks. Then gelatine/cold crash for another 3-4 weeks
Then bottle
does anyone reckon there will be enough yeast to carb up after 6-7 weeks in total in the fridge. I know he wont drink it flat!! haha :icon_vomit:

Regarding the cold crashing & carbing, I am deadset paranoid that after 3-4 weeks in the primary, then 4-6 weeks in a cube CC'd @ 2deg or so that there wont be enough yeast to carb up. Can anyone tell me to REALLYstop worrying OR...should I put yeast in every bottle...OR how about this:

1. Primary @ 11 deg: 3-4 weeks
2. Secondary @ 3deg: 2 weeks (plus glelatine...in a cube?)
3. Bottle and chuck straight back in the fridge at 12deg to carb up for 2 weeks?? long enough?
4. Then bring the temp back down to 2-3deg for 4-6 weeks for 'lagering' (in bottle of course).....

AFter this I will either be able to drink it as it is, or I will store it under the house with the rest of my beer....ambient temps range from 8deg(winter)-20deg(summer), temperature does not change rapidly under the house (double brick)

Ideas on this last approach to ensuring carbing occurs??

 

[Screwtop]

How come? just would like to know why is it so, IYHO I thought, (no personal experience yet) that carapils freshens up a kit, just a little, like 100g-200g, depending on style of course, but like your normal light coloured lagers/ales....

Fermentability of malt extract can be as low as 60%, makes no sense adding dextrinous specialty malt and decreasing fermentability further. Unless.......some adjunct is used to increase fermentability. Brewing is all about balance.

If you doing a partial then include some wheat malt to give a drier mouthfeel and improve foam.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[rendo]

Okay....I am pretty I understand.

One last stupid question...SORRY....do you mean the dry powdered wheat malt from the HBS or you mean get wheat malt etc and do a mash. No idea how much...say 300g as a stab in the dark for the powdered stuff..

Sorry for the dumb Q's I usually do my homework, but I couldnt find much on this

rendo

Fermentability of malt extract can be as low as 60%, makes no sense adding dextrinous specialty malt and decreasing fermentability further. Unless.......some adjunct is used to increase fermentability. Brewing is all about balance.

If you doing a partial then include some wheat malt to give a drier mouthfeel and improve foam.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Halfbeak]

Regarding the cold crashing & carbing, I am deadset paranoid that after 3-4 weeks in the primary, then 4-6 weeks in a cube CC'd @ 2deg or so that there wont be enough yeast to carb up. Can anyone tell me to REALLYstop worrying OR...should I put yeast in every bottle...OR how about this:

1. Primary @ 11 deg: 3-4 weeks
2. Secondary @ 3deg: 2 weeks (plus glelatine...in a cube?)
3. Bottle and chuck straight back in the fridge at 12deg to carb up for 2 weeks?? long enough?
4. Then bring the temp back down to 2-3deg for 4-6 weeks for 'lagering' (in bottle of course).....

AFter this I will either be able to drink it as it is, or I will store it under the house with the rest of my beer....ambient temps range from 8deg(winter)-20deg(summer), temperature does not change rapidly under the house (double brick)

Ideas on this last approach to ensuring carbing occurs??

I recently did an extract lager in the style of Pilsner Urquell and gave it a week in primary, a week in secondary and then lagered at 2 degrees for 4 weeks. It has carbed up perfectly and even though it looked nice and clear when I bottled, there is nearly as much yeast in the bottom as an ale.


Also, you could try experimenting a bit with your lagering. My cube wasn't large enough to hold my entire batch so I bottled some and then lagered. I was worried about carbing these up, but I decided to just take them out and put them with the rest of the bottles, which had been batch lagered and then bottled. I think those bottle lagered ones are a bit better overall, so it might be worth a try.

 

[rendo]

Hi Screwy,

I didnt notice this post of yours below until now sorry. Interesting, more thoughts etc.

I am stewing over this one big time. Will get my plan together properly and repost. Off to do some research on Vienna Lager recipes

A good read on the style if you're looking to make a Gsser Pale

http://www.byo.com/stories/recipes/recipei...s-from-the-pros

Some details:

View attachment 36013

A pale Vienna Lager recipe of 50/50 Pils/Munich would work leaving out any Cara/Crystal if using extract to maximise fermentability, around 28IBU at the top of the style guide due to the use of extract from a 60 min boil and for a little aroma 10 min@ .1g/l of the same hop as you use for bittering, maybe Hallertau. Use a good lager yeast like Munich Lager or similar.

Since the Brewery is in Styria I really wonder how Styrian Golding hops would work?

Good luck,

Screwy

 

[Screwtop]

Okay....I am pretty I understand.

One last stupid question...SORRY....do you mean the dry powdered wheat malt from the HBS or you mean get wheat malt etc and do a mash. No idea how much...say 300g as a stab in the dark for the powdered stuff..

Sorry for the dumb Q's I usually do my homework, but I couldnt find much on this

rendo

Grain..malted wheat....about 300g.

Screwy

 

[rendo]

OKAY....recipie is just about locked in. I have gone away from doing a partial atm, I want to see if this lager turns out as good as my recent LCBA clone (Thanks MHB).

Anyhow, feedback/thoughts on the Austrian Lager recipie I have put together? (meant to be a light coloured gold lager, not high alc, german taste, well carbonated)

Ingredients:

1.7kg Coopers Canadian Blonde (why? its a pretty bland, golden coloured kit, the lightest kit from coopers int'l series)
100g - 200g carapils steeped 30mins (add body and head rentention (as HR is important here))
600g Light Dry Malt (add body and fermentables)
300g Dry wheat malt (help with head retention/body)
(Maybe 200g dex, but I am thinking not)

20g hallertau @ 60mins (seems to be one of the hops of choice for german helles type beer)
20g hallertau @ 15mins
10g Hallertau @ 2mins
1-5g Saaz?? @ 0 mins??? (might not do this, but just to add a tiny bit of aroma and a hint of saaz spice)

Yeast WLP830 (liquid) (Same as Wyeast 2206, apparently)

Too much wheat? too much hops? Yeast choice?


Rough Method:

Make yeast starter, either 1 or 2L
Pitch the yeast at 11deg (both the starter and the wort) (fermentation fridge)

Brew ~3 weeks, 11deg
CC & gelantine for ~3 weeks @ 2-3deg 5-6 weeks in total, in primary, no secondary.
then bottle

So what do you think? How are the ingredients, eg the wheat, carapils, hops etc.

 

[rendo]

Hi All, any thoughts on my last post? I am going to brew it anyway, but any last min suggestions before I go buy the lot and brew away

Rendo