Are Growlers Legal?

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However if growlers are considered a dispensed food (such as being pured a schooner in the pub) then how can you be allowed to leave the premises with it ?

That would vary from state to state with legislation and license types. I have a feeling that might be the reason why the ATO hasn't jumped on this with all its might just yet.

Technically speaking in Victoria, if you are drinking at a pub with holds a General Liquor License, they only thing stopping you from ordering a pint of draught and walking out the door and up the street with it to your house is the theft of the pint glass.
 
Bit of a Growler "shortage", at least in Sydney, at the moment.


Your new local craft palace (henry's) does growlers. Platinum bottle-o are renovating their dingy old shop soon, and will be doing growlers. Im pretty sure the local Taphouse does them, and maybe even Murrays @ Manly as well.
 
Your new local craft palace (henry's) does growlers. Platinum bottle-o are renovating their dingy old shop soon, and will be doing growlers. Im pretty sure the local Taphouse does them, and maybe even Murrays @ Manly as well.


I have 2 Henrys Growlers on the kitchen bench right now. I know they are available. I was pointing out that they are so popular that the actual bottles are in short supply. A few weeks back Henrys was asking people to return the empties...
 
Sticky issues like this are part of the reason lawyers drive 5 - Series BMW's and afford premium cocaine.
 
:lol: my brain hurts now :blink:

Historically (as in Medieval England), Beer was made with Hops, and Ale was made without hops (and in fact, without a boil!), and this was written in some of the statutes I believe

Stout was made industrially.

Could be that its a historical vestige of our legal/excise system being inherited from england
 
So that shop in QVB was Flaschengeist, and they are ok because they sell liquor, which is different to Beer.

Didn't realise there was such a shortage of growler bottle. I'll have to guard mine more carefully ;)
 
I dont care if it is illegal, growlers are a great thing for the beer scene, and who doesnt love being able to take home a couple of litres of beer that you may not be able to buy in a six pack. Growl on! :beerbang:
 
I have 2 Henrys Growlers on the kitchen bench right now. I know they are available. I was pointing out that they are so popular that the actual bottles are in short supply. A few weeks back Henrys was asking people to return the empties...

Ah gotcha. Next time I'll rock up with an erlenmeyer and a cork :icon_cheers:
 
That would vary from state to state with legislation and license types. I have a feeling that might be the reason why the ATO hasn't jumped on this with all its might just yet.

Technically speaking in Victoria, if you are drinking at a pub with holds a General Liquor License, they only thing stopping you from ordering a pint of draught and walking out the door and up the street with it to your house is the theft of the pint glass.

interesting - if so, then in Victoria you could make the argument that a growler is not in fact repackaging, but the sale of an "open" container of alcohol and therefore not something that requires extra excise. If you are willing to let the punter wander off with the actual container (or if they supply their own) is a separate issue.

Dont screw on the lid..... problem solved. ???
 
The excise on a 30L keg is the same as bottled, so it's OK in that regard? Going by a [post="906996"]post a few months back[/post] from a Perth retailer (I think).
 
The excise on a 30L keg is the same as bottled, so it's OK in that regard? Going by a [post="906996"]post a few months back[/post] from a Perth retailer (I think).


That was pointed out in post #6 of this thread...

"The ATO double dipping. Duty paid on original 48+ litre keg then again on the 2 litre container with no refund

Only way around it is to buy 30 litre kegs where the higher rate has already been applied"
 
I think it will be some time yet before the ATO make an official ruling on this because there are so many loop holes in liquor licensing legislation and because it varies from state to state unlike tax legislation which is standard across the country.

FYI I work in the liquor licensing industry in Victoria.
 
I think it will be some time yet before the ATO make an official ruling on this because there are so many loop holes in liquor licensing legislation and because it varies from state to state unlike tax legislation which is standard across the country.

FYI I work in the liquor licensing industry in Victoria.


No.
Excise is Federal and the ATO already has laws regarding growlers. Excise has little to do with liquor licensing...
ATO
 
Stephenkentucky gifted me one of these the other day.

Not as pretty as glass, but insulated..

http://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/30163463/

I like it. B)



sluka_vacuum_flask__0102302_PE247056_S4.JPG
 
Growlers are not illegal. It took us a solid year of making sure everything was done correctly, and growlers were filled correctly, before we started doing it at the shop.

Growlers fall under packaged beer sales, so you can only fill from 30L kegs. From speaking with the ATO, it completely 100% illegal to fill from 50L kegs unless you have a manufacturers license, and pay excise on each fill you produce, which is not available to liquor stores. Ramifications of this is that it then becomes tax fraud, and not only are the liquor stores liable, but so are importers/distributors/breweries who are aware of their 50L kegs being dispensed into growlers.

30L kegs are taxed at the exact same rate as all other packaged beer. It is only 50L kegs that are different. The ATO is happy with growlers, as long as no one is filling from 50L kegs (which some places are).

Liquor licensing has no issues with growlers, as long as the local council of the store in question is happy with them. Personally, the only issue we came across was cleaning and swapping of bottles, so we cannot fill anything we do not clean at the shop, which means we have to clean all bottles. We were also required to get a food license and are subject to random inspections, as such, to maintain cleanliness. This is different for all councils. Some councils have not allowed re-fillable bottles, or have not really cared about how growlers are filled. A lot of new places don't realise the amount of work that is involved in setting up a growler station, let alone talking to their local council, talking to the ATO, and talking to liquor licensing, which has lead to some bad practices.

If anyone has any questions, then I am more then happy to answer them. I am advocate of the right thing being done in terms of growlers, as they are being watched with a close eye. I personally don't want to see one bad egg ruining it for everyone else.

EDIT:

"Growler Shortage"

There is no shortage of actual bottles in the world. It is just expensive and takes a long time to get bottles into Australia. There is no manufacture of them in Australia. We just received another shipment of 500 growlers, which cost us a considerable amount of money, as you pay for the bottles as well as duty once they land in the country. This is not something every liquor store can do without a second thought. It took nearly 3 months for the bottles to arrive. We currently have 1000 Squealer bottles on order, which likely won't arrive until mid october, which were ordered 2-3 weeks ago.
 
What about the problem of being able to take opened alcohol containers off the premises.
You buy the growler to 'take away' but it is not sealed and as such should be consumed on the premises.
F.. knows how the alcohol free zones would impact, again its an open container in a area you cant have them.
Thank christ the cops are too busy chasing drugo's and thieves.

The major concern and primary focus of law enforcement is not chasing drugo's and thieves but speed and traffic offences for which a hefty fine can be levied. Drugo's and thieves cost the states enormous sums of money in incarcaration costs.

Cheers Altstart
 
Growlers are not illegal. It took us a solid year of making sure everything was done correctly, and growlers were filled correctly, before we started doing it at the shop.


pretty much a summary of all the contributions in this thread to date.

I didn't state there was a worldwide shortage, nor did anyone else.
In Sydney, there certainly was a shortage due to the popularity, eg: a local brewer had ONE growler left a few weeks ago and asked customers to return theirs (for a credit). Another outlet resorted to crowd sourcing (basically pre-paying) for a shipment (perhaps it was Squealers).

When you say "illegal" to package from 50 L kegs without a "manufacturer's license", you mean a Manufacturer's EXCISE Licence. According to the ATO, under the Excise Act, this CAN can be held by a pub or a retailer, easily, for the purpose of repackaging.
So it is quite legal to repackage from 50 L kegs if the correct licence is obtained.

I use to work in Australian Taxation Management and Accounting and can tell you that one cannot rely on advice from "speaking to the ATO". In fact, the ATO cannot be held liable for incorrect information from a consultant.

Section 77FC of the Excise Act covers this. It states that repackaging from 48 L or larger into packages less than 48 L is taken to be the manufacture of beer. Repackaging beer would not normally constitute 'manufacture' within the ordinary meaning of that term.

The problem with that, as I pointed out, is the double applied excise. Once for 50 L package at the brewery, then again at the point of repackaging for the 2 L package. Double dipping!

However, that can be avoided if one obtains an excise storage licence in order to acquire the bulk beer under bond (that is, without the duty being paid on the beer). The duty is then payable at the higher packaged rate when the growlers are filled.
 
Yeah, pretty much confirms what I overheard the other day.
Filling from 50l kegs is a no no.

Not that it's stopped some of the bars up here.
 

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