Another dead starter

[shacked]

I put a starter of WLP023 (Expiry at the start of September) on yesterday morning and used my normal approach:

500ml water with 1/2 cup DME, boil for 10 mins, pour into a sanitised 1L flask with stir bar, cover with foil, chill to 20C in an ice bath, pour in room temp yeast, cover with new foil and leave on stir plate for 8 hours.

24 hours later, the gravity hasn't dropped and the starter smells sweet like honey. There was no krausen. There is a layer of brown-ish looking yeast on the bottom and the wort looks clear. I think it's dead. This has also happened to a vial of WLP002.

I've used this approach successfully with 001, 009, 029 and 320 and it's always worked.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Any ideas?

 

[vykuza]

Your method looks fine. Maybe give it another 24 hours before calling it? WLP023 isn't known as a slow starter.

 

[danestead]

what was the manufacture date of the yeast and how was the yeast stored?

 

[Bbowzky1]

I usually exclusively use wyeast for this exact reason.
You know the yeast is healthy before wasting all the time and effort with cleaning and sanitation.
With that said tho I've never had a yeast fail. Some have taken longer then others to swell.
Additionally i split my smack pack 4 ways so i generally start small and step up. Probz half a stubby thrn a stubbie then a tallie then decant then a tallie and a stubbie then 2 tallies. (As in bottled fresh wort)
Im probably over complicating it however starting with smaller amounts i feel it stresses the yeast less and reduces attenuation times.

Not sure how this info crosses over to your situation but hope my 2c helps in some way.

Cheers

 

[shacked]

what was the manufacture date of the yeast and how was the yeast stored?

Not sure about the manufacture date. I bought it at the LHBS wrapped in newspaper with an ice brick and drove 30 mins home and it went straight into the fridge. The WLP002 was shipped in one day with a single techni-ice brick in a small polystyrene container.

Here is photo of the vial:

 

[shacked]

I usually exclusively use wyeast for this exact reason.
You know the yeast is healthy before wasting all the time and effort with cleaning and sanitation.
With that said tho I've never had a yeast fail. Some have taken longer then others to swell.
Additionally i split my smack pack 4 ways so i generally start small and step up. Probz half a stubby thrn a stubbie then a tallie then decant then a tallie and a stubbie then 2 tallies. (As in bottled fresh wort)
Im probably over complicating it however starting with smaller amounts i feel it stresses the yeast less and reduces attenuation times.

Not sure how this info crosses over to your situation but hope my 2c helps in some way.

Cheers

Yeah I usually split the yeast 3 ways and build each one up with a starter. The 4 brew shops that I go to all stock whitelabs and dry yeast

 

[Bbowzky1]

Yeah I store 3 of 4 in the fridge and grow the third. Im yet to have a vial of spit yeast go bad or fail to start. With that said tho i might move up to that process where ya store it in gelitine and freeze it. Cant remember what its called.

I dont use stir plates or flasks just an old coke bottle with an airlock in the lid. Im pretty agricultural.

Hope that ya layer isnt anything nasty and im going to assume your yeast will start.
If it was only a 3rd of a vial it might just take some time to attenuat.

Good luck

 

[vykuza]

Not sure about the manufacture date. I bought it at the LHBS wrapped in newspaper with an ice brick and drove 30 mins home and it went straight into the fridge. The WLP002 was shipped in one day with a single techni-ice brick in a small polystyrene container.

Here is photo of the vial:

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1440296359.654358.jpg

Well, the 002 sounds like mine, and I can guarantee it was cold end to end. What was the date on it?

 

[shacked]

Well, the 002 sounds like mine, and I can guarantee it was cold end to end. What was the date on it?

Yeah Nick, I got it from you but it came with a vial of 001 that was 100% fine - I doubt it was an issue with staying cold during shipping. The 002 I used the day after the use by date; so I thought it might be touch and go. I pitched that (002) starter into a mild anyway and it didn't fire after 48 hours, so I threw some Notto on it and it turned out great.

 

[Weizguy]

Yeah Nick, I got it from you but it came with a vial of 001 that was 100% fine - I doubt it was an issue with staying cold during shipping. The 002 I used the day after the use by date; so I thought it might be touch and go. I pitched that (002) starter into a mild anyway and it didn't fire after 48 hours, so I threw some Notto on it and it turned out great.

I like to see activity in my starters and let them settle before pitching.
Sounds like classic Homebrewer impatience. Allow more time for your starters before brewing (from experience with older saved yeast).
I would not have pitched the starter without an visible activity, and then expect it to show activity in a full-size wort within 48 hours.
Your technique sounds strong, if a bit primitive. I have only recently moved from PET bottles to Erlenmeyers, and see the advantages already.
Keep your processes rigorously sanitary and your patience handy, and you will be rewarded.

 

[shacked]

Here's how it looks. Gravity still the same.

 

[TheWiggman]

How warm is it? In winter I have troubles starting some yeasts until I put them in the [fermenting] fridge with a heat belt set at 25°C. By 8h, things are well and truly underway. Give yourself a good 48h, even 72h before throwing in the towel.

 

[marksy]

Let it do its thing. Mine have been taking a little longer to kick off during winter, but when they do, they go hard.

 

[shacked]

How warm is it? In winter I have troubles starting some yeasts until I put them in the [fermenting] fridge with a heat belt set at 25°C. By 8h, things are well and truly underway. Give yourself a good 48h, even 72h before throwing in the towel.

Thermometer says 22C. My fermenting fridge is currently cold crashing another brew, so I can't use it for the starter

 

[Weizguy]

How warm is it? In winter I have troubles starting some yeasts until I put them in the [fermenting] fridge with a heat belt set at 25°C. By 8h, things are well and truly underway. Give yourself a good 48h, even 72h before throwing in the towel.

I agree, some of my starters have taken up to week to show activity at these current temperatures.

As long as the culture tastes uncontaminated at pitching, should not matter how long it takes to get going (without temp control).

 

[shacked]

Checked this morning and there is a tiny bit of krausen on the starter after 5 days. The gravity has dropped a little and the starter smells and tastes fine. Maybe not dead yet!

In the meantime, I've packaged my other brew and have the starter in the brew fridge at 23C.