An Ag Beer Without Hops. Anyone Done It?

[Effect]

Wow my cough disguised the true meaning of my post better than I thought :lol:

:lol:

 

[blackbock]

I've tasted plenty of K+K beers which I swear had no hops in them. I don't think cloying sweetness is really going to be the problem, there are ways to solve that anyhow. You might find yourself wondering why you did it though...

 

[Bribie G]

I remember years ago in the UK, the American Colt45 malt liquor was available for a while and it was a nice headbanger with no hops. Tasted a bit bland but not cloyingly sweet.

 

[Angry Scotsman]

If you don't try it you don't know.

Easiest way to learn about brewing is to do it yourself. If it takes like shit you have maybe wasted 30 dollars and a bit of time.

We all tip out beer at some stage

 

[Muggus]

Look on the bright side...you'll save money on hops!

 

[Brewtus]

You can always add hop extract straght to the glass (about 1 drop) if it is rubbish.

 

[HoppingMad]

Reckon I will give it a crack - just as a educational test so I can appreciate the flavours that come from grain as I'm starting out in AG and have only done about 4 batches now and am still getting to know the differences between them. And brewing a smaller batch is probably a wise idea, given the discussions about it probably coming out a bit sweet.

After the 'cough-cough' discussions I bothered to look up how that drink that kilt wearing people enjoy is made - so now I get what Smurto and you other guys are on about - didn't realise the stuff was made with barley too. Should have guessed!

The idea came to me after I'd given someone a taste of one of my first few AGs and they said 'ease off on the hops' and I thought 'hang on, what if you get rid of them all together?' What would happen?

Checked it out a bit and some wheat beers and the odd stout can be pretty lightly hopped, but no one leaves them out altogether, although apparently in medieval times they did. Can't believe I'm even considering this. If I do bite the bullet I'll let you know whether I :icon_vomit: drinking it or was pleasantly surprised.

Hopper.

 

[kook]

This is Malt Liquor is it not?

I remember years ago in the UK, the American Colt45 malt liquor was available for a while and it was a nice headbanger with no hops. Tasted a bit bland but not cloyingly sweet.

Isn't Colt 45 (and most, if not all malt liquors) hopped?

 

[buttersd70]

I seem to recal a videopodcast on basic brewing where james and steve did a couple of small batches with no hops to more fully taste the grain, to compare base malts...iirc, they got sour off flavours, thought they'd stuffed it, so did it again....and what they apparantly found was a strange sour taste, still there, which made it hard for them to really judge one malt against the other (I remember one was Marris Otter, one was American 2 row, there might have been a third...). They didn't seem to know exactly what was causing it...I think what they ended up doing was repeating the experiment, but hopped to a very low rate.

edit...may 15/27 2008.....but my interwebz is running too slow atm for me to refresh my memory on the result.

 

[dr K]

Just a small point.
If I were going to make a kiltish spirit I would not simply distill unhopped fermented wort. Esters are a very important part of beer but it concentrated form may tend to add a very bad taste.
I would do my mash and then ferment the whole mash, grains and all quite briefly, I dunno three days, as soon as the krausen krap dropped I would strain off the liquid and distill it. Essentially what you want is the early fermention products, the first rush of yeast product from the simpler sugars. Now this is only how I would do it. But like some sugars....

K

 

[HoppingMad]

No worries Dr K, was planning on creating a beer without the hops, not a whiskey, but if I ever tip myself into "The dark art that we dare not speak the name of" I'll bear that in mind.

Cheers, :icon_cheers:

Hopper.

 

[newguy]

If you want to make something that isn't cloyingly sweet, just use some rauchmalt in the grist. The smoked malt will help to balance the sweetness and you probably won't miss the hops at all.

 

[RetsamHsam]

I seem to recal a videopodcast on basic brewing where james and steve did a couple of small batches with no hops to more fully taste the grain, to compare base malts...iirc, they got sour off flavours, thought they'd stuffed it, so did it again....and what they apparantly found was a strange sour taste, still there, which made it hard for them to really judge one malt against the other (I remember one was Marris Otter, one was American 2 row, there might have been a third...). They didn't seem to know exactly what was causing it...I think what they ended up doing was repeating the experiment, but hopped to a very low rate.

edit...may 15/27 2008.....but my interwebz is running too slow atm for me to refresh my memory on the result.

Now that you mention it, I remember this episode. I think they concluded that the hops were necessary to ward off any infection before it took hold. From memory the flavour they picked up was "rubber band"

Maybe I'll throw in a bittering addition to 1-3 IBU in a 3L batch and see how it turns out.

 

[mash head]

My lightly hopped beer deffinately had a sour type smell comming from the top of the fermenter but tastes pretty good out of the bottle. The light hop rate deffinately leves room for some of the yeasty flavours though so I think I will have to bump it up a couple of aau. The last brew I bottled I thought had an actobacter infection but I think now that its a lack of hops (was only bottled days ago but tastes ok so far.)
Thats my 2c worth Greg <_<

 

[schooey]

I have a no hop, no malt beer on multiple taps at home, man you should see the clarity...

 

[tcraig20]

This would be something like Finnish Sahti wouldnt it?

Edit: No, that can be flavoured with juniper apparently.

 

[HoppingMad]

I seem to recal a videopodcast on basic brewing where james and steve did a couple of small batches with no hops to more fully taste the grain, to compare base malts...

Will have to check this out. Thanks Butters. A worry about the sour element though. If it's definate I'm going to wind up with a sour element I'm not sure about going all the way with it.

Newguy, interesting idea on the Rauch beer grain. Am starting to think that a darker beer like a mini batch of stout or porter (with some chocolate malt) or a wheat beer where it's all yeast and grain and the yeast imparts the fruit could be ways to go too. I think without hops you'd have to have a strong element in the ingredients left to compensate.

Hopper.

 

[drsmurto]

Just a small point.
If I were going to make a kiltish spirit I would not simply distill unhopped fermented wort. Esters are a very important part of beer but it concentrated form may tend to add a very bad taste.
I would do my mash and then ferment the whole mash, grains and all quite briefly, I dunno three days, as soon as the krausen krap dropped I would strain off the liquid and distill it. Essentially what you want is the early fermention products, the first rush of yeast product from the simpler sugars. Now this is only how I would do it. But like some sugars....

K

Or just use a yeast suited to the end product

 

[Hutch]

Just a small point.
If I were going to make a kiltish spirit I would not simply distill unhopped fermented wort. Esters are a very important part of beer but it concentrated form may tend to add a very bad taste.
I would do my mash and then ferment the whole mash, grains and all quite briefly, I dunno three days, as soon as the krausen krap dropped I would strain off the liquid and distill it. Essentially what you want is the early fermention products, the first rush of yeast product from the simpler sugars. Now this is only how I would do it. But like some sugars....

K

K... I'm curious where you got your information from?
If you fermented your mash, you'd end up with a fermeter full of vomit. Leave your mash tun full of spent grain for a few days, and not only you, but all your neighbours will know what I'm talking about!!!

And as for boiling the product after only 3 days, why would you not wait for all the sugars to ferment out? You'd not yeild a high percentage of distillate, and you'd also risk scorching the sugars/grain during the long boil.

DrSmurto's on the right track, fermenting a high gravity, no-hopped beer in the usual way, using "the right yeast" for the job. The end product benefits from the balance of esters, ketones, aldehydes etc. that are produced by said yeast, not dissimilar to some brewing yeasts (Belgian for example).

 

[kook]

If you fermented your mash, you'd end up with a fermeter full of vomit. Leave your mash tun full of spent grain for a few days, and not only you, but all your neighbours will know what I'm talking about!!!

I can't talk for DrK, but isn't that the way the distilleries in Scotland do it? Ferment the grain and all? I could be totally wrong..