Alternate ways to culture yeasts
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Ross
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Darren said:
Proofing yeast is something done by both bakers and brewers who use dried yeast. The dried yeast is placed in warm water before it is used. The warm water quickly rehydrates the yeast cells and brings them back to functionality. Pitching the dried yeast directly into the wort is not as effective at quickly reviving them...
Enlightened?
Ross said:Darren said:
Proofing yeast is something done by both bakers and brewers who use dried yeast. The dried yeast is placed in warm water before it is used. The warm water quickly rehydrates the yeast cells and brings them back to functionality. Pitching the dried yeast directly into the wort is not as effective at quickly reviving them...
Enlightened?
[post="100607"][/post]
Yes and no.
I have never had a problem pitching dried yeast directly. Proofing probably refers to "proving" they are alive before pitching (ie yes they are foaming). Nothing worse than pitching a commercial quantity of yeast into beer or bread to find it didn't survive.
The advantage that a Hber has over commercial brewers is that the wort can easily be shaken (ie adding more oxygen) allowing budding and further growth.
Most Saf packs contain a billion cells (a guess). It only takes 50% of them to survive and you will have an active ferment.
As for swirling/shaking. Many brewers add pure oxygen to their wort. Won't this cause oxidation (I presume thats what you mean). What about your strarter that you stir the bejeezus out of? It will presumably contain many, many oxidated molecules. Once you tip that into your beer you are contributing a considerable amount of oxidated molecules to the beer. As you are aware, oxidation is a chain reaction. Its a bit like pouring rusty water onto new steel.
hope this clears up my thoughts.
Comments welcomed.
cheers Darren
Ross
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Darren said:Ross said:Darren said:
Proofing yeast is something done by both bakers and brewers who use dried yeast. The dried yeast is placed in warm water before it is used. The warm water quickly rehydrates the yeast cells and brings them back to functionality. Pitching the dried yeast directly into the wort is not as effective at quickly reviving them...
Enlightened?
[post="100607"][/post]
As for swirling/shaking. Many brewers add pure oxygen to their wort. Won't this cause oxidation (I presume thats what you mean). What about your strarter that you stir the bejeezus out of? It will presumably contain many, many oxidated molecules. Once you tip that into your beer you are contributing a considerable amount of oxidated molecules to the beer. As you are aware, oxidation is a chain reaction. Its a bit like pouring rusty water onto new steel.
hope this clears up my thoughts.
Comments welcomed.
cheers Darren
[post="100610"][/post]
Darren, of course I wasn't reffering to oxidisation from shaking
. But shaking a full fermenter is liable to splash wort all over your lid & into your lid seals - swirling is great, but telling people new to brewing, to shake their fermenter could cause them a few headaches..cheers Ross
Ross said:Darren said:Ross said:Darren said:
Proofing yeast is something done by both bakers and brewers who use dried yeast. The dried yeast is placed in warm water before it is used. The warm water quickly rehydrates the yeast cells and brings them back to functionality. Pitching the dried yeast directly into the wort is not as effective at quickly reviving them...
Enlightened?
[post="100607"][/post]
As for swirling/shaking. Many brewers add pure oxygen to their wort. Won't this cause oxidation (I presume thats what you mean). What about your strarter that you stir the bejeezus out of? It will presumably contain many, many oxidated molecules. Once you tip that into your beer you are contributing a considerable amount of oxidated molecules to the beer. As you are aware, oxidation is a chain reaction. Its a bit like pouring rusty water onto new steel.
hope this clears up my thoughts.
Comments welcomed.
cheers Darren
[post="100610"][/post]
Darren, of course I wasn't reffering to oxidisation from shaking
cheers Ross
[post="100615"][/post]
Yep, shake swirl call it what you like. If your fermenter is properly sanitised it shouldn't matter (FWIW I have removed all the rubber seals from my lids). Haven't used an airlock for years. My message is if it doesn't start or finish give it a swirl.
cheers
Darren
AndrewQLD
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Ross,
Maybe you could enlighten me!
cheers
Darren
[post="100606"][/post]
[/quote]Proofing yeast is something done by both bakers and brewers who use dried yeast. The dried yeast is placed in warm water before it is used. The warm water quickly rehydrates the yeast cells and brings them back to functionality. Pitching the dried yeast directly into the wort is not as effective at quickly reviving them...
Enlightened?
[post="100607"][/post]
[/quote]As for swirling/shaking. Many brewers add pure oxygen to their wort. Won't this cause oxidation (I presume thats what you mean). What about your strarter that you stir the bejeezus out of? It will presumably contain many, many oxidated molecules. Once you tip that into your beer you are contributing a considerable amount of oxidated molecules to the beer. As you are aware, oxidation is a chain reaction. Its a bit like pouring rusty water onto new steel.
hope this clears up my thoughts.
Comments welcomed.
cheers Darren
[post="100610"][/post]
[/quote]Darren, of course I wasn't reffering to oxidisation from shaking
. But shaking a full fermenter is liable to splash wort all over your lid & into your lid seals - swirling is great, but telling people new to brewing, to shake their fermenter could cause them a few headaches..cheers Ross
[post="100615"][/post]
[/quote]Yep, shake swirl call it what you like. If your fermenter is properly sanitised it shouldn't matter (FWIW I have removed all the rubber seals from my lids). Haven't used an airlock for years. My message is if it doesn't start or finish give it a swirl.
cheers
Darren
[post="100617"][/post]
[/quote]No chance of any infections Darren?? Surely that is not how a microbioligist would recommend producing an active culture http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/The_...-t6513-s30.html
Bit of a contradiction from your previous comments on another thread. Come on mate, make your advice a little more consistent.
Cheers
Andrew
Hey,
Andrew. Don't see where I contradicted myself. Maybe you could out-line exactly where?
Ross as I have said a thousand times. There is nothing wrong with swirling. Probably a better option and definately more sanitary than producing a starter. Probably less detrimental to the final fermented wort too.
As for spilling the wort whilst swirling, yes it does happen if you get carried away. I make 65 litre batches that almost fill my fermenter. I can't carry them very far. So I use a sack truck to move them around. Because I have to tilt them they always leak. I just use a sponge with some sanitiser in a spray bottle. Are you worried about wort loss or the mess? or is it oxidation of the wort?
Anyhow pitching dry yeast on top of wort is not poor advice. In actual fact some manufacturers suggest that HBers do exactly that. I have done both and not noticed the catastophic effect that you must be presuming to occur.
Rehydrating/pitching dry IMHO is a mute point. You could argue for ever the benefits/disadvantages of either for ever.
anyhow,
welcome your thoughts. I have thick skin. After all this is the place to put it up front.
cheers
Darren
Andrew. Don't see where I contradicted myself. Maybe you could out-line exactly where?
Ross as I have said a thousand times. There is nothing wrong with swirling. Probably a better option and definately more sanitary than producing a starter. Probably less detrimental to the final fermented wort too.
As for spilling the wort whilst swirling, yes it does happen if you get carried away. I make 65 litre batches that almost fill my fermenter. I can't carry them very far. So I use a sack truck to move them around. Because I have to tilt them they always leak. I just use a sponge with some sanitiser in a spray bottle. Are you worried about wort loss or the mess? or is it oxidation of the wort?
Anyhow pitching dry yeast on top of wort is not poor advice. In actual fact some manufacturers suggest that HBers do exactly that. I have done both and not noticed the catastophic effect that you must be presuming to occur.
Rehydrating/pitching dry IMHO is a mute point. You could argue for ever the benefits/disadvantages of either for ever.
anyhow,
welcome your thoughts. I have thick skin. After all this is the place to put it up front.
cheers
Darren
normell
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Hi all
I have HBed for quite a few years now, all with dried yeasts (Saf), most just tipped on top,dry.
3 times that iv'e rehydrated the yeast with warm water have all failed.
So for me it's just sprinke on top, seal up & away she goes.
Normell
I have HBed for quite a few years now, all with dried yeasts (Saf), most just tipped on top,dry.
3 times that iv'e rehydrated the yeast with warm water have all failed.
So for me it's just sprinke on top, seal up & away she goes.
Normell
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Hahaha This is Funny....
Where is the chick in the Bikini with the round number card......
OK my 2 cents
With dry yeast , you actually do not want to re hydrate in wort, its best to do it in water as your not actually proving it at this stage, you are just rehydrating, the bubble you se are o2 bubbles, as the dry yeast has been super saturated in O2, and that is why i think a good pitch of hydrated dry yeast generaly starts well for anyone with out a airation system, Rehydration in wort or a sugar solution will slow the actual rehydration
As far as Bakers using Dry yeast, i have never seen nor heard of any baker tha uses dry yeast, mainly due to the fact that compound yeast is more stable, and on a larger scale youll find alot of bakers using Ale strains of yeast as they are a hell of a lot more stable than the tradtional bread strains, I tend to use 1056, but i know of 1 baker that makes a fantastic bread with the coopers yeast
Where is the chick in the Bikini with the round number card......
OK my 2 cents
With dry yeast , you actually do not want to re hydrate in wort, its best to do it in water as your not actually proving it at this stage, you are just rehydrating, the bubble you se are o2 bubbles, as the dry yeast has been super saturated in O2, and that is why i think a good pitch of hydrated dry yeast generaly starts well for anyone with out a airation system, Rehydration in wort or a sugar solution will slow the actual rehydration
As far as Bakers using Dry yeast, i have never seen nor heard of any baker tha uses dry yeast, mainly due to the fact that compound yeast is more stable, and on a larger scale youll find alot of bakers using Ale strains of yeast as they are a hell of a lot more stable than the tradtional bread strains, I tend to use 1056, but i know of 1 baker that makes a fantastic bread with the coopers yeast
Ding Ding.
From here
http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/DCL_Main/main_br..._directions.htm
Rehydration Instructions
1. Add the dried yeast to approximately 10 times its own weight in water or wort at:
27C 3C for Safbrew and Safale
23C 3C for Saflager
After a 15-30 minute rest, maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes.
Pitch into FV.
2. Alternatively, progressively sprinkle the dried yeast into the FV providing that the temperature of the wort is above 20C. After a 15-30 minute rest, mix the wort using aeration.
Two perfectly reasonable ways to skin a cat!
cheers
Darren
From here
http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/DCL_Main/main_br..._directions.htm
Rehydration Instructions
1. Add the dried yeast to approximately 10 times its own weight in water or wort at:
27C 3C for Safbrew and Safale
23C 3C for Saflager
After a 15-30 minute rest, maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes.
Pitch into FV.
2. Alternatively, progressively sprinkle the dried yeast into the FV providing that the temperature of the wort is above 20C. After a 15-30 minute rest, mix the wort using aeration.
Two perfectly reasonable ways to skin a cat!
cheers
Darren
AndrewQLD
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Darren said:
Perhaps I misinterpreted your posts in this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/The_...-t6513-s30.html but I took your general line of thought to be that infections and wild yeast strains are extremely easy to be introduced into your culture or beer if proper sanitation and cleanliness are not adhered to. Now you are saying that you don't seal your fermenting brews and swirl them which does sometimes cause spillage. Isn't that a fairly easy way to get infections from around the lid without any seals? To me that is a bit of a contradiction, if I have interpreted your posts correctly. Most people on this forum tend to give their opinion and leave it at that, as in most instances there is more than one way to skin a cat. And as you pointed out
which is what the original thread was about and should have stayed about.
Cheers
Andrew
AndrewQLD said:
Andrew,
Sanitation and cleanliness are essential to making a good brew. Probably the most important time to not get infection is at starter time. I bet this is where most HBers stuff up. Seals and airlocks probably cause more problems than they cure. I screw my lid on. FWIW, it leaks no more without seals than it did with them. I always spray the outside of my fermenters if spillage occurs.
My real bone was that Ross said that re-hydrating dry yeast was essential. I say whammy blammy bullcrap. Just introduces another step for introduction of:
1. Killing the yeast by having the starter water too hot (how do you measure 25-35 in a sanitary manner?)
2. If the starter vessel/water is not well sanitised, infection risk is very real especially for newbies.
cheers
Darren
BennyBrewster
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You guys spend to much time and money worrying about your yeast. I have been using yeast I got at Woolies. 12 yeast sachels in a box for $6. I open them all and put them in a salt shaker for storage. Then I simply shake a bit on the top of my wort and away she goes.
BennyBrewster
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fergi said:
Fergi, hate to break it to ya mate but that yanky wrestling junk is fake !!! These boys a dead serious
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