All Taste The Same.

[manticle]

Basically I have followed the instructions on the can (25*) when i pitch the yeast.
Then on a heat pad, it varies between 18 to 23.

Thought I'd replied but the internet must have eaten it.

Try getting the pitching temp (adding yeast) and the ferment temp to around 17-18. Up to 20-22 is OK but consistency is crucial.

Forget the heatpad. When you add the yeast, try sanitising a stainless steel whisk (clean it and boil it in water for an hour) then whisk the brew for 5 minutes. Aeration of yeast, early in its life with beer is good. Avoid aeration once fermentation starts though.

Do these things and see if it makes a difference.

If it does, and you like it, try a fresh wort kit as Beerfingers has humbly suggested.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

. If you can't make acceptable beer from a kit then you won't make good AG beer.
.

This is just pointless semantics, Thirsty boy also made a similar comment and this is true to a certain extent, but if you have someone who has never brewed before and does not like processed ingredients, say they already cook and are hell bent on only using fresh ingredients and they want to do the same with making beer.
There is no reason why they cant learn all the other aspects of brewing on small batches of AG.

If people make snap judgements on anything after only doing it once or twice and decide its not for them, or its ****, thats their problem and they prob would never have had the patience to brew anything decent anyway.

 

[petesbrew]

G'day Folks, Banjo here!
I'm new too the forum and also too homebrewin.
So far i have made 10 or more batches of beer of different types. (All the Coopers kits, VB, Morgans etc)
All the beers i have made seem to taste the same, whether it's hopped or not, exept for a couple of dark ales (Coopers and Tooheys old).
The beers seem to be watery, and have a fruity/cidery taste, that my mate descibed as tasting like homebrew.
The head on the beer varies from bottle too bottle, and even if it has a good head, it dos'nt last long.
I have only made 1 batch of beer with suger, the rest have been 50/50 dex/malt.
The bottles I use are the old 800ml VB ones, that seem to be thicker than the new 750ml.
I take the time too clean the bottles and the fermenter properly, so i dont think infection is an issue.
The beer is drinkable, but could be heaps better.
I am just about too put down a Czech Pilsener, hopped with Saaz, but I'm not planning on wasting this one!
Any advice is most welcome.

Cheers Banjo

Have you put down the pilsner one yet Banjo? If not, guys please put the nerdrage aside and help a dude out.
I'd say do this, but it's off the top of my head.
Czech Pils kit
1kg LDME (Light Dried Malt Extract), or 1.5kg LLME (Light Liquid Malt Extract)
180g Carapils grain - look in the articles at steeping grain.
25g Saaz dry hopped
Dried Lager yeast - I'd us S-189, available from Craftbrewer, it's a good yeast and can be brewed easily with sydney winter temps (and supposedly up to 18c with no probs)
Otherwise Saflager 34/70 should do the job.
Pete

 

[DU99]

Fresh Meaning and Definition

1. (superl) New; original; additional.
2. (superl) Not salt; as, fresh water, in distinction from that which is from the sea, or brackish; fresh meat, in distinction from that which is pickled or salted.
3. (superl) In a raw, green, or untried state; uncultivated; uncultured; unpracticed; as, a fresh hand on a ship.
4. (n.) A stream or spring of fresh water.
5. (n.) A flood; a freshet.
6. (superl) Youthful; florid; as, these fresh nymphs.
7. (n.) The mingling of fresh water with salt in rivers or bays, as by means of a flood of fresh water flowing toward or into the sea.
8. (superl) Renewed in vigor, alacrity, or readiness for action; as, fresh for a combat; hence, tending to renew in vigor; rather strong; cool or brisk; as, a fresh wind.
9. (v. t.) To refresh; to freshen.
10. (superl) Lately produced, gathered, or prepared for market; not stale; not dried or preserved; not wilted, faded, or tainted; in good condition; as, fresh vegetables, flowers, eggs, meat, fruit, etc.; recently made or obtained; occurring again; repeated; as, a fresh supply of goods; fresh tea, raisins, etc.; lately come or made public; as, fresh news; recently taken from a well or spring; as, fresh water.
11. (superl) Possessed of original life and vigor; new and strong; unimpaired; sound.

how long does the fresh product sit on the shelf..

i am not disagreeing with anyone,but in some cases it's what people can afford to do and the space they have to do it in,and the money to do it with..all grain is the ultimate result..

 

[kelbygreen]

sounds great pete I must admit I skipped this whole thread to this page as the typical go straight to AG **** comes out!. we all start some where and diving into AG is easy now but some people like me wanted to get the process down first not go LOOK! I can make great beer even if I do it **** it will be good! no I want to do it right and make it better!

Ok on topic! Pete has a good start for pilsner (if you can afford it and source it locally) try briess malts they are so bloody good as close to AG you can get without a FWK cost more yes but great! sub for pilsner malt if using briess. I would also use 200g dex if using LDME to thin it out a touch and 20g of carapils wont be noticable so go 200g.

Use swiss lager yeast (if thats the s-189 then sorry) if going from craft brewer as its warming up and it can tolerate 19deg if you dont have temp control otherwise s-23 is good. ferment for 14 days at least prob 10 days at 10-12 deg and 4 days at 18 deg or untill gravity is consistent. Then chill to 1-4 deg for at least a week Id do it 2+ I do 4-5 weeks and its clear as. then bottle or keg and leave till carbed. WIth kit and extract it is best to leave it condition for at least a month min 2 months and the beer will be a totally different beer

 

[pk.sax]

I was just not gonna reply... Then I saw OP actually came back discussed in his own thread

Mate, what they say about temp....

Also, apart from that, you can get rid of the HB twang from K&K beer but it won't be K&K any more. I did my first K&K as per recipe with the kit except that I didn't have a heater and the shop was out of stock so it accidentally fermented between 15-20 C. It was drinkable, just, for a little while anyway.

For my second try, I picked up a Canadian blonde can and boiled the crap out of it as I read somewhere that doing so reduces the bitterness. Then I added a whole can of 'fresh' wheat extract to it, topped it all up with a can of towhees liquid brewing sugar (corn starch). I also hopped it with fresh hallertau as a 60 minute boil. Finally, fermented @ 18C with US05 yeast.

Now, this beer wasn't bad. The twang was still there but was faint. The head on it was great. It was a bit viscous even - aka mouthfeel - when drinking it didn't feel like a thin beer. Taste was great. My mate loved it, and he's a hophead!! He loved my euro hopped medium bitterness beer. Guys at the club gave me decent feedback on it that the fermentation was right etc etc, taste wasn't special but quite acceptable.

All good and happy.

Except.......

All that stuffing around cost money to buy the extra hops, malt extract, good sugar..... A Fresh Wort Kit costs less IMO. And they give you a packet of dry yeast (like US05) free with it. Most importantly though, it does not come with a **** instruction set that tells you to ferment between 18-25.

As said above, put away that heat pad for now. Kit beers lag a lot so brewers tend to think the extra heat helps - its a bad solution.
Learn how to activate/rehydrate your yeast prior to pitching. IMO, it helps protect from dud yeast that will take forever. I never sprinkle it dry onto the wort.
If you are really keen on not buying FWKs, get unhopped extract, hops and yeast and try doing a recipe that calls for all that. The homebrew twang is supposedly due to the 'hop extract' used in the cans of goo sold as kits rather than real fresh hops. Unhopped extract doesn't suffer from this.
Be pre-warned though, extract brewing will cost more than kit brewing and not get you the same quality as grain brewing (or cheating with FWKs). By the time you add up the cost of the bits in Kits & bits, it's a bloody fortune that could've bought you so much real goodness.

PS: Disclaimer - I do not intend to argue any of this, take my advice with a grain of salt or two and happy brewing

 

[kelbygreen]

you forgot to mention the people like me that work 60 hours a week that have the time to sit down on the little time off and spend 4-5 hours brewing!! Yes I AG but if I was home for the 10 days I am away and didnt get 4 days off after then there is no way I could have the time to do AG

 

[Nevalicious]

:icon_offtopic:
I'm still laughing at the popcorn and bear pics

Off topic??

This whole thread has been derailed...

Agree about the popcorn and bear pics though

 

[fcmcg]

Fresh Meaning and Definition

1. (superl) New; original; additional.
2. (superl) Not salt; as, fresh water, in distinction from that which is from the sea, or brackish; fresh meat, in distinction from that which is pickled or salted.
3. (superl) In a raw, green, or untried state; uncultivated; uncultured; unpracticed; as, a fresh hand on a ship.
4. (n.) A stream or spring of fresh water.
5. (n.) A flood; a freshet.
6. (superl) Youthful; florid; as, these fresh nymphs.
7. (n.) The mingling of fresh water with salt in rivers or bays, as by means of a flood of fresh water flowing toward or into the sea.
8. (superl) Renewed in vigor, alacrity, or readiness for action; as, fresh for a combat; hence, tending to renew in vigor; rather strong; cool or brisk; as, a fresh wind.
9. (v. t.) To refresh; to freshen.
10. (superl) Lately produced, gathered, or prepared for market; not stale; not dried or preserved; not wilted, faded, or tainted; in good condition; as, fresh vegetables, flowers, eggs, meat, fruit, etc.; recently made or obtained; occurring again; repeated; as, a fresh supply of goods; fresh tea, raisins, etc.; lately come or made public; as, fresh news; recently taken from a well or spring; as, fresh water.
11. (superl) Possessed of original life and vigor; new and strong; unimpaired; sound.

how long does the fresh product sit on the shelf..

i am not disagreeing with anyone,but in some cases it's what people can afford to do and the space they have to do it in,and the money to do it with..all grain is the ultimate result..

Du , the majority of this post is as about as usefull as the all the agro that has gone on since the OP's first post....
The only thing i do agree with is the last statement you have made...
There has been alot of agro in this thread...all Banjo wanted was some useful advice about making HIS beer....
Can we please get this thread onto a useful topic to help the man ??
I wasn't gonna buy in but i've been shaking my head at some of the posts in this thread for a couple of hours now....
Banjo...maybe just concern yourself with page one and the first 4 or so usefull posts....
Good luck bloke...
This is my 2c...
That is all...
Ferg

 

[loikar]

BUT!

and this is a big BUT........(and a point I've made earlier that you either dimiss as irrelevant or have ignored or missed)

Let's give an average KK a score out of 10. Let's give it a 5

A kit brewer wants to know how to get a 7 or 8. Maybe a fresh wort kit? Good idea.

Brew fwk badly which makes it a **** FWK. Maybe it gets a 6 (if you're lucky). Is 1 point out of 10 worth the extra $20 the kit brewer spent? What do they then think of FWK or AG (which takes 3-6 hours depending on method as opposed to less than 1 for KK?).

It's reasonable to assume in that scenario that the brewer getting an average of 5 for his kits would know that his FWK was fermenting incorrectly, given that the FWK was brewed to the same environmental conditions as the K&K, there is no way the FWK would come out the same as or 1 point higher than a K&K. of course a pre-infected FWK is a slim variable, but one that would in no doubt be obvious to the brewer.

So, if you are suggesting that the Brewer brewed his K&K at 18c but brewed his FWK at 27c, then it should be obvious to the brewer what the variable of the bad brew was.

Now before you start mashed the reply button:
To tie this into the OP who's thread is titled "All taste the same", it would indicate that this scenario of variation is not evident.
2 things; either he's brewing consistently hot, or he's brewing with **** ingredients.
I suspect both. Now you can pat him on the head and say; "brew your **** beer cooler", or you can say use better ingredients, get your process down, and then move on.
So you can harp on about him cooking it a little hot being the cause, but I say **** ingredients = **** beer.
Extract fits that description.

My good AG brews are better than my **** kit, extract and partial brews but my good kit, extract and partial brews were better than my **** AG brews. I've tasted some kit beers that I would be hard pressed to know how they were made and some AG brews I've tipped down the sink. You can't make that **** irrelevant because it isn't irrelevant to anyone vaguely interested in home brewing.

yep, I'll agree, an AG with DMS up to its eyeballs is not as good as a manicured Extract brew.
But you can put all the effort into babying an all Extract brew and it'll come out ok while you can put a half arsed into an AG, and it will come out better than your pampered Extract.

We could argue in circles all night -it's obvious that you are so attached to your opinion that you have no inclination to even acknowledge if someone else makes a valid point, even if you have a counter point. He who shouts loudest isn't always right, just louder.

Be loud. See who listens.

Its text Manticle, you can't hear it.....or can you?

If you thought Extract brewing was the ducks guts, you would be doing it.
but you don't, because it's not.

Just because you don't want to tell a K&K brewer that his ingredients are inferior and make him feel warm and fuzzy about his twangy extract brew, it doesn't mean his beer is any good.

Process is process, no matter what the ingredients are.
A great process with **** ingredients will amount to a well processed **** product
A great process with great ingredients will amount to a great product.

it's not rocket science mate, it's just beer.

 

[loikar]

I've spoken to blokes who are trying to work out what size esky to get for their mash tun & what sort of chiller they need that have never & possibly never will make a batch of beer. A bloke has asked me what he should do when I knew he'd been told how to brew by blokes that know way more about brewing than I do. I told him to go get a fermenter, a can of goo, some hops & a packet of us05. If you can't make acceptable beer from a kit then you won't make good AG beer.

Beerfingers, I'm going to get a can of mexican cerveza & make up another batch with some galaxy & cascade at some point & see if it's still as good as I remember it being. I'm pretty sure it will taste way better than some of my early AG beers.

Send me a bottle Hatchy

 

[pk.sax]

I think that advice on what kit to buy is pretty relevant. Especially as he said in hsi first post that he has tried all sorts of kits he could lay hands on finds no difference, he asked for help to fix that situation.

What has not been helpful in this thread is people talking real hot and not backing up any of the good advice with some qualified knowledge that will actually help the OP. Telling him to go AG because kits are **** is not helpful. He can read the zillions of threads on here that say just the same and come to that conclusion.

Help on kits was asked and the most on-topic would be to point towards good kits/types of kits like FWK etc and point out how they compare to K&K. Some people have done that and given good info, and it's not just the first few posts. Temperature is a great suggestion but hardly covers what advice OP is after.

 

[loikar]

:icon_chickcheers:

Amazing how Smurto gave an extract version of his award winning beer. Perhaps he should of just said "nah it'll be **** if you use extract, dont bother, do it all grain or dont do it.

See my reply before you edited this.

I'm pretty sure The Good Doctor provided an extract version because the Extract brewers were asking him for it.
He's a good bloke like that. I doubt though he's done an extract version of it himself.

Also read the last line in my previous reply to you and apply it to this one also.

 

[brett mccluskey]

quite a few people here should just do this

 

[WarmBeer]

 

[kelbygreen]

**** me this is ridiculous 6 pages of ******** and TBH I read like 3 post while flicking threw it quickly that actually try to help this guy out. People have different opinions and if you only believe in AG then dont bother posting in K&K and extract as when they do its like AG is the only way to go. Sure its better beer but they may not have the time or space or equipment to do it

 

[DU99]

:icon_offtopic: ferg i was like you,the whole post seems to be off track..

 

[Lecterfan]

This has to be one of the best I've seen since August 2010...I would've commented earlier but usually that means the mods are all over me hee hee h34r:

 

[loikar]

@ beerfingers, So all the beer you made and raved about that wasn't AG was ****? Maybe your AG is **** too but you havn't realised it yet. Maybe you'll buy a Braumeister and proclaim that all beer that isn't brewed with a Braumeister is **** etc etc.

BTW hope you read the edited post. Then it may occur to you why some brewers like the good Dr. have earnt the respect of alot of brewers and why some havnt.

Cheers

sorry to the OP. I got sucked in.

You live in a differen't world Brad, either you cant read, the words don't make sense in your head or your reading a differen't post.

No I can pretty much say my AG's are great, as can most AG brewers.
He is a very clever, smart and well recognised brewer and I still bounce questions of him myself form time to time
And I have nothing to bad to say against the good DrSmurto as I want my rice hulls from him.

 

[loikar]

Awesome thread lads.
Great stuff!
We should do this more often.

For the Record Manticle...

I still loves ya :icon_cheers:

Cheers,

Beerfingers

 

[Siborg]

Hey Banjo. Welcome to the wonderful world of brewing! Everyone has their opinions, and of course, they are sure theirs is the one you should listen to.

In regards to your beer and your processes. Fermenting above 20 degrees is going to give your brews that cidery taste. I'm sure that's something everyone in this discussion can agree on. Try fermenting between 18-20 degrees as was already mentioned. As was also mentioned, try getting some better brewing yeast as the ones that come under the lid are usually old and stressed. Safale US-05 is a great, neutral yeast that won't give you that cidery taste IF you can keep the brew between 18-20 degrees. You can usually pick up a pack for around $5 and the good places will keep them in the fridge to keep them fresh and healthy (try Craftbrewer or Grain & Grape from the top of this site)

Really check your sanitation regime. Everything must be cleaned then sanitised. Clean with hot water and unscented napisan or equivalent. Use a smooth cloth that won't leave small scratches on surfaces (bacteria can grow in scratches). Rinse with hot water, then sanitise with your no-rinse of choice. I use starsan and it is excellent. You can get all this stuff from craftbrewer and grain & grape. They also sell better kits, which you may want to try instead of the coopers range which you can get from your supermarket.

Once I got the above two points down, my brews improved significantly. They also improved more once I moved to AG brewing as I had these fundamentals down pat.

Just to add a little fuel to this kits v AG fire, The Melbourne brewers have been running an annual comp called "Get your kit off" to prove that you can make good beer from a kit. One of the beers made from a kit got third place at the Westgate Stout Extravaganza last year, second place (after count-back) at Vic Brew and fourth place in the nationals.

Feel free to continue what you're doing. Look for the little things you can improve on, and, look towards how you can move into AG brewing down the line. You don't need a lot of space. Just a 19L pot from Big W and some mesh bag. Have a look around this site for intro guides to brew in a bag (BIAB) for some ideas.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

So K&K don't have a twang to them? or that Willy Nelson will be twangier falling into a banjo display?

I genuinely think that if you do so with care, you can brew perfectly nice, twang free kit beers. I've tasted them, I've made them myself and thats what the document I posted is about doing. i thought it might actually be helpful for the OP, so i will draw attention to it again and retire from the discussion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A2j_MO6...c/edit?hl=en_US

Note: I own both an actual banjo and pretty much every Willie Nelson record- So perhaps I am not as sensitive to twang as I might be.

 

[Nick JD]

I genuinely think that if you do so with care, you can brew perfectly nice, twang free kit beers. I've tasted them, I've made them myself and thats what the document I posted is about doing. i thought it might actually be helpful for the OP, so i will draw attention to it again and retire from the discussion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A2j_MO6...c/edit?hl=en_US

Note: I own both an actual banjo and pretty much every Willie Nelson record- So perhaps I am not as sensitive to twang as I might be.

Thirsty - What evidence do you have that twang comes from old goop?

I've made twang-free extract beers from ancient liquid malt extract. Is it the hop compounds in the kit that make the twang? Not the extract?

 

[Tim]

@Banjo, not all kits are equal. There is a website called homebrewkitreviews.com that was put together by a member called Sluggerdog that used to post on AHB. It's a good starting point in determining what kits to use. Most local homebrew shops have recipe suggestions that will help you produce a beer that is of similar style to a commercial beer. These are also a good start.

Regardless of what some posts claim you can make great beer from kits. The first couple of batches won't be great but with experience and sorting out variables such as controlling temperature, using iodophor or starsan instead of sodium metabisulphate to sanitise, pitching the right quantity of good yeast and cold conditioning your young beer you will turn out beer you can be proud of.

There seems to be an "AG is best" type mentality here on AHB and new brewers are in such a rush to get to advanced brewing that they don't master the basics. Sure AG is not hard and can produce excellent beer, but it can be expensive to set up, it's time consuming and the result will still be ordinary if you don't have the basics down.

Welcome to AHB - Don't listen to the hater's, use the search tool and make the beer you want to drink.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

@Banjo, not all kits are equal. There is a website called homebrewkitreviews.com that was put together by a member called Sluggerdog that used to post on AHB. It's a good starting point in determining what kits to use. Most local homebrew shops have recipe suggestions that will help you produce a beer that is of similar style to a commercial beer. These are also a good start.

Regardless of what some posts claim you can make great beer from kits. The first couple of batches won't be great but with experience and sorting out variables such as controlling temperature, using iodophor or starsan instead of sodium metabisulphate to sanitise, pitching the right quantity of good yeast and cold conditioning your young beer you will turn out beer you can be proud of.

There seems to be an "AG is best" type mentality here on AHB and new brewers are in such a rush to get to advanced brewing that they don't master the basics. Sure AG is not hard and can produce excellent beer, but it can be expensive to set up, it's time consuming and the result will still be ordinary if you don't have the basics down.

Welcome to AHB - Don't listen to the hater's, use the search tool and make the beer you want to drink.

Agree with all this, except the bit about "expensive to set up". To me a $19 pot and $3 worth of material isn't expensive. Sure a 3V or Spaudels Braumeister is expensive, but AG isn't expensive.

My system (which I've had for 2 years) still consists of 2 big w pots (2nd was on special for $12), material and borrowing existing kitchen items. My kegs are more expensive by a mile (and a lot of kit brewers keg as well).

There are kit haters. I did kit/extract for 11 years or so, I made some nice beers. I make better beer with AG, but it took me 11 years to get to that stage.

Having said that, there are a lot of passionate AG brewers here - they can be overbearing (as can I), but I really think that, even with this, if I'd had AHB around when I was doing kit/extract, I'd be typing "did kit/extract for a year, AG for 12 years", rather than the other way around, and that my kit beers for that time, would have been better than I remember them being. For all the passion, and sometimes snobbery, it's a great resource to allow anyone, regardless of where they are or want to be to increase the quality of their beer, even if they choose to stick to their chosen method.

It does take longer, lots longer. But this is a hobby, not cheap beer for me (though it is cheap).

Goomba

 

[ekul]

Hmmm... I think a a fully automated 3V system is what is needed http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=41265
Or at the very least a HERMS. i don't know how anyone could make a beer without one.

In my experience all my kit beers tasted similar, this i because they WERE similar. 1.7kg malt and a kilo of sugar. After you get your temperature problems sorted and your sanitation sorted i would look at introducing a little grain.

If you soak 200g of crystal in some water that is 65C for 20mins, boil it and add to the rest of your brew you will get a different flavour.

A step up from that is soaking a kilo of base malt in some 65C water for an hour and then boiling it and adding that to your brew. This is called minimash. Once you start doing this you open up a whole new world of different flavours. Using base malt will change the strength of your beer so you'll need a program to work this out. I've used brewmate since i started brewing. It is simple to use and is great for experimenting with new hops and malt etc. You can get it here for free http://www.brewmate.net/

Good luck mate

 

[loikar]

ok, so I might have been keen to poke a bee hive yesterday to get some activity happening on here, and I totally enjoyed the back and forth.
Which I would also say it's safe to assume, so did a lot of you...
Today i'm a bit over battering you all it and am now a bit bored of it.

However, the trolling aside; the crux of my argument is in-fact undeniably true.

You don't need to 'practice' brewing on a K&K if you're just starting out.
You can start Brewing AG and still learn the the process of brewing. Chances are you'll make a much better beer than if it were a K&K.
Process and ingredients are not one on the same.
AG Brewing is not difficult.

there is no argument here that AG brewing is head and shoulders above any K&K brew given the same environmental conditions.
Process has no bearing on where the wort comes from. A hot FWK will still taste better than a hot K&K.

I will agree that you can, infact make a decent extract beer with added specialty malts, hops, a 60min boil and decent yeast in the right conditions.
But if you're going to all that trouble, why not just go AG and have the freshest wort available?

Opening a packet of WhiteWings chocolate cake mix, adding an egg and a cup of milk, then throwing it into the oven, does not make me a baker, no more than opeining a tin makes you a brewer. it just means that you can ferment wort.

If you're serious about brewing beer, then get serious. Stop adding bit's and ***** to your packet beer to make it taste better. Why not just make beer?

K&K isn't bang for buck, you actually get what you pay for, and a tin of cerveza and a kilo of sugar is going to taste like **** compared to what you could be making for just a few dollars more.

I'm actually thinking of posting a thread where i can make 9L of AG beer with nothing but the equpment in my kitchen for under $20.
That's without buying anything but the ingredients and not using my regular brewing gear.
If i can do that, how many of you would give it a go?

There is a stigma on this forum that AG is for 'advanced' brewers which is just a load of ********.
There is no ladder to climb, there is no pecking order, there is no "i know more than you because I have a higher post count and Ive been here for 5 years"
If you fall victim to that, then you're only limiting yourself by how other brewers perceive you.

They can rave on about "when i'm judging beers" and "that guys a noob" as much as they like after the dust has settled and everyone has gone home to try and gain some kind of higher status amongst their AHB peers, but for those who don't play the "I'll be like him one day" or "look at how many posts ive made", they just look like a ******.

This is just beer, it's your beer, it's not a ******* social climbing ladder or a 'Schooling'.

if you extract brewers are so passionate about your beer, with the knowledge that no AG brewer would go back to Extract given the choice, Given that with 2x 19L pots from BigW for $40 and a pillow case, you can be making all grain beer. And be showing other new brewers just how rediculously easy it is, what's stopping you?

Seriously, what_the_hell_is_stopping_you?

Thanks for playing lads,

BF

 

[petesbrew]

ok, so I might have been keen to poke a bee hive yesterday to get some activity happening on here, and I totally enjoyed the back and forth.
Which I would also say it's safe to assume, so did a lot of you...
Today i'm a bit over battering you all it and am now a bit bored of it.

However, the trolling aside; the crux of my argument is in-fact undeniably true.

You don't need to 'practice' brewing on a K&K if you're just starting out.
You can start Brewing AG and still learn the the process of brewing. Chances are you'll make a much better beer than if it were a K&K.
Process and ingredients are not one on the same.
AG Brewing is not difficult.

there is no argument here that AG brewing is head and shoulders above any K&K brew given the same environmental conditions.
Process has no bearing on where the wort comes from. A hot FWK will still taste better than a hot K&K.

I will agree that you can, infact make a decent extract beer with added specialty malts, hops, a 60min boil and decent yeast in the right conditions.
But if you're going to all that trouble, why not just go AG and have the freshest wort available?

Opening a packet of WhiteWings chocolate cake mix, adding an egg and a cup of milk, then throwing it into the oven, does not make me a baker, no more than opeining a tin makes you a brewer. it just means that you can ferment wort.

If you're serious about brewing beer, then get serious. Stop adding bit's and ***** to your packet beer to make it taste better. Why not just make beer?

K&K isn't bang for buck, you actually get what you pay for, and a tin of cerveza and a kilo of sugar is going to taste like **** compared to what you could be making for just a few dollars more.

I'm actually thinking of posting a thread where i can make 9L of AG beer with nothing but the equpment in my kitchen for under $20.
That's without buying anything but the ingredients and not using my regular brewing gear.
If i can do that, how many of you would give it a go?

There is a stigma on this forum that AG is for 'advanced' brewers which is just a load of ********.
There is no ladder to climb, there is no pecking order, there is no "i know more than you because I have a higher post count and Ive been here for 5 years"
If you fall victim to that, then you're only limiting yourself by how other brewers perceive you.

They can rave on about "when i'm judging beers" and "that guys a noob" as much as they like after the dust has settled and everyone has gone home to try and gain some kind of higher status amongst their AHB peers, but for those who don't play the "I'll be like him one day" or "look at how many posts ive made", they just look like a ******.

This is just beer, it's your beer, it's not a ******* social climbing ladder or a 'Schooling'.

if you extract brewers are so passionate about your beer, with the knowledge that no AG brewer would go back to Extract given the choice, Given that with 2x 19L pots from BigW for $40 and a pillow case, you can be making all grain beer. And be showing other new brewers just how rediculously easy it is, what's stopping you?

Seriously, what_the_hell_is_stopping_you?

Thanks for playing lads,

BF

Yeah but some people aren't into this as a serious hobby, they're in it to have fun and make a cheap beer.

Then they start looking into how to make that beer taste better. Their can opener works fine - they don't want to get all the bells and whistles. And they certainly don't want to be looked down upon by an AG Elitist.

Yeah AG is easy... but you should've seen me getting led through my first AG day.... stressed out... "is it ready to mash yet?" questions.

You get into the serious stuff at your own leisure, as with any hobby/obsession.

 

[Tim]

 

[goomboogo]

Beerfingers, where did you get your glasses? I'd love a pair of those.