All Taste The Same.

[loikar]

I've spoken to blokes who are trying to work out what size esky to get for their mash tun & what sort of chiller they need that have never & possibly never will make a batch of beer. A bloke has asked me what he should do when I knew he'd been told how to brew by blokes that know way more about brewing than I do. I told him to go get a fermenter, a can of goo, some hops & a packet of us05. If you can't make acceptable beer from a kit then you won't make good AG beer.

Beerfingers, I'm going to get a can of mexican cerveza & make up another batch with some galaxy & cascade at some point & see if it's still as good as I remember it being. I'm pretty sure it will taste way better than some of my early AG beers.

Send me a bottle Hatchy

 

[pk.sax]

I think that advice on what kit to buy is pretty relevant. Especially as he said in hsi first post that he has tried all sorts of kits he could lay hands on finds no difference, he asked for help to fix that situation.

What has not been helpful in this thread is people talking real hot and not backing up any of the good advice with some qualified knowledge that will actually help the OP. Telling him to go AG because kits are shit is not helpful. He can read the zillions of threads on here that say just the same and come to that conclusion.

Help on kits was asked and the most on-topic would be to point towards good kits/types of kits like FWK etc and point out how they compare to K&K. Some people have done that and given good info, and it's not just the first few posts. Temperature is a great suggestion but hardly covers what advice OP is after.

 

[loikar]

:icon_chickcheers:

Amazing how Smurto gave an extract version of his award winning beer. Perhaps he should of just said "nah it'll be shit if you use extract, dont bother, do it all grain or dont do it.

See my reply before you edited this.

I'm pretty sure The Good Doctor provided an extract version because the Extract brewers were asking him for it.
He's a good bloke like that. I doubt though he's done an extract version of it himself.

Also read the last line in my previous reply to you and apply it to this one also.

 

[brett mccluskey]

quite a few people here should just do this

 

[WarmBeer]

 

[kelbygreen]

**** me this is ridiculous 6 pages of bullshit and TBH I read like 3 post while flicking threw it quickly that actually try to help this guy out. People have different opinions and if you only believe in AG then dont bother posting in K&K and extract as when they do its like AG is the only way to go. Sure its better beer but they may not have the time or space or equipment to do it

 

[DU99]

:icon_offtopic: ferg i was like you,the whole post seems to be off track..

 

[Lecterfan]

This has to be one of the best I've seen since August 2010...I would've commented earlier but usually that means the mods are all over me hee hee h34r:

 

[loikar]

@ beerfingers, So all the beer you made and raved about that wasn't AG was shit? Maybe your AG is shit too but you havn't realised it yet. Maybe you'll buy a Braumeister and proclaim that all beer that isn't brewed with a Braumeister is shit etc etc.

BTW hope you read the edited post. Then it may occur to you why some brewers like the good Dr. have earnt the respect of alot of brewers and why some havnt.

Cheers

sorry to the OP. I got sucked in.

You live in a differen't world Brad, either you cant read, the words don't make sense in your head or your reading a differen't post.

No I can pretty much say my AG's are great, as can most AG brewers.
He is a very clever, smart and well recognised brewer and I still bounce questions of him myself form time to time
And I have nothing to bad to say against the good DrSmurto as I want my rice hulls from him.

 

[loikar]

Awesome thread lads.
Great stuff!
We should do this more often.

For the Record Manticle...

I still loves ya :icon_cheers:

Cheers,

Beerfingers

 

[Siborg]

Hey Banjo. Welcome to the wonderful world of brewing! Everyone has their opinions, and of course, they are sure theirs is the one you should listen to.

In regards to your beer and your processes. Fermenting above 20 degrees is going to give your brews that cidery taste. I'm sure that's something everyone in this discussion can agree on. Try fermenting between 18-20 degrees as was already mentioned. As was also mentioned, try getting some better brewing yeast as the ones that come under the lid are usually old and stressed. Safale US-05 is a great, neutral yeast that won't give you that cidery taste IF you can keep the brew between 18-20 degrees. You can usually pick up a pack for around $5 and the good places will keep them in the fridge to keep them fresh and healthy (try Craftbrewer or Grain & Grape from the top of this site)

Really check your sanitation regime. Everything must be cleaned then sanitised. Clean with hot water and unscented napisan or equivalent. Use a smooth cloth that won't leave small scratches on surfaces (bacteria can grow in scratches). Rinse with hot water, then sanitise with your no-rinse of choice. I use starsan and it is excellent. You can get all this stuff from craftbrewer and grain & grape. They also sell better kits, which you may want to try instead of the coopers range which you can get from your supermarket.

Once I got the above two points down, my brews improved significantly. They also improved more once I moved to AG brewing as I had these fundamentals down pat.

Just to add a little fuel to this kits v AG fire, The Melbourne brewers have been running an annual comp called "Get your kit off" to prove that you can make good beer from a kit. One of the beers made from a kit got third place at the Westgate Stout Extravaganza last year, second place (after count-back) at Vic Brew and fourth place in the nationals.

Feel free to continue what you're doing. Look for the little things you can improve on, and, look towards how you can move into AG brewing down the line. You don't need a lot of space. Just a 19L pot from Big W and some mesh bag. Have a look around this site for intro guides to brew in a bag (BIAB) for some ideas.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

So K&K don't have a twang to them? or that Willy Nelson will be twangier falling into a banjo display?

I genuinely think that if you do so with care, you can brew perfectly nice, twang free kit beers. I've tasted them, I've made them myself and thats what the document I posted is about doing. i thought it might actually be helpful for the OP, so i will draw attention to it again and retire from the discussion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A2j_MO6...c/edit?hl=en_US

Note: I own both an actual banjo and pretty much every Willie Nelson record- So perhaps I am not as sensitive to twang as I might be.

 

[Nick JD]

I genuinely think that if you do so with care, you can brew perfectly nice, twang free kit beers. I've tasted them, I've made them myself and thats what the document I posted is about doing. i thought it might actually be helpful for the OP, so i will draw attention to it again and retire from the discussion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A2j_MO6...c/edit?hl=en_US

Note: I own both an actual banjo and pretty much every Willie Nelson record- So perhaps I am not as sensitive to twang as I might be.

Thirsty - What evidence do you have that twang comes from old goop?

I've made twang-free extract beers from ancient liquid malt extract. Is it the hop compounds in the kit that make the twang? Not the extract?

 

[Tim]

@Banjo, not all kits are equal. There is a website called homebrewkitreviews.com that was put together by a member called Sluggerdog that used to post on AHB. It's a good starting point in determining what kits to use. Most local homebrew shops have recipe suggestions that will help you produce a beer that is of similar style to a commercial beer. These are also a good start.

Regardless of what some posts claim you can make great beer from kits. The first couple of batches won't be great but with experience and sorting out variables such as controlling temperature, using iodophor or starsan instead of sodium metabisulphate to sanitise, pitching the right quantity of good yeast and cold conditioning your young beer you will turn out beer you can be proud of.

There seems to be an "AG is best" type mentality here on AHB and new brewers are in such a rush to get to advanced brewing that they don't master the basics. Sure AG is not hard and can produce excellent beer, but it can be expensive to set up, it's time consuming and the result will still be ordinary if you don't have the basics down.

Welcome to AHB - Don't listen to the hater's, use the search tool and make the beer you want to drink.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

@Banjo, not all kits are equal. There is a website called homebrewkitreviews.com that was put together by a member called Sluggerdog that used to post on AHB. It's a good starting point in determining what kits to use. Most local homebrew shops have recipe suggestions that will help you produce a beer that is of similar style to a commercial beer. These are also a good start.

Regardless of what some posts claim you can make great beer from kits. The first couple of batches won't be great but with experience and sorting out variables such as controlling temperature, using iodophor or starsan instead of sodium metabisulphate to sanitise, pitching the right quantity of good yeast and cold conditioning your young beer you will turn out beer you can be proud of.

There seems to be an "AG is best" type mentality here on AHB and new brewers are in such a rush to get to advanced brewing that they don't master the basics. Sure AG is not hard and can produce excellent beer, but it can be expensive to set up, it's time consuming and the result will still be ordinary if you don't have the basics down.

Welcome to AHB - Don't listen to the hater's, use the search tool and make the beer you want to drink.

Agree with all this, except the bit about "expensive to set up". To me a $19 pot and $3 worth of material isn't expensive. Sure a 3V or Spaudels Braumeister is expensive, but AG isn't expensive.

My system (which I've had for 2 years) still consists of 2 big w pots (2nd was on special for $12), material and borrowing existing kitchen items. My kegs are more expensive by a mile (and a lot of kit brewers keg as well).

There are kit haters. I did kit/extract for 11 years or so, I made some nice beers. I make better beer with AG, but it took me 11 years to get to that stage.

Having said that, there are a lot of passionate AG brewers here - they can be overbearing (as can I), but I really think that, even with this, if I'd had AHB around when I was doing kit/extract, I'd be typing "did kit/extract for a year, AG for 12 years", rather than the other way around, and that my kit beers for that time, would have been better than I remember them being. For all the passion, and sometimes snobbery, it's a great resource to allow anyone, regardless of where they are or want to be to increase the quality of their beer, even if they choose to stick to their chosen method.

It does take longer, lots longer. But this is a hobby, not cheap beer for me (though it is cheap).

Goomba

 

[ekul]

Hmmm... I think a a fully automated 3V system is what is needed http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=41265
Or at the very least a HERMS. i don't know how anyone could make a beer without one.

In my experience all my kit beers tasted similar, this i because they WERE similar. 1.7kg malt and a kilo of sugar. After you get your temperature problems sorted and your sanitation sorted i would look at introducing a little grain.

If you soak 200g of crystal in some water that is 65C for 20mins, boil it and add to the rest of your brew you will get a different flavour.

A step up from that is soaking a kilo of base malt in some 65C water for an hour and then boiling it and adding that to your brew. This is called minimash. Once you start doing this you open up a whole new world of different flavours. Using base malt will change the strength of your beer so you'll need a program to work this out. I've used brewmate since i started brewing. It is simple to use and is great for experimenting with new hops and malt etc. You can get it here for free http://www.brewmate.net/

Good luck mate

 

[loikar]

ok, so I might have been keen to poke a bee hive yesterday to get some activity happening on here, and I totally enjoyed the back and forth.
Which I would also say it's safe to assume, so did a lot of you...
Today i'm a bit over battering you all it and am now a bit bored of it.

However, the trolling aside; the crux of my argument is in-fact undeniably true.

You don't need to 'practice' brewing on a K&K if you're just starting out.
You can start Brewing AG and still learn the the process of brewing. Chances are you'll make a much better beer than if it were a K&K.
Process and ingredients are not one on the same.
AG Brewing is not difficult.

there is no argument here that AG brewing is head and shoulders above any K&K brew given the same environmental conditions.
Process has no bearing on where the wort comes from. A hot FWK will still taste better than a hot K&K.

I will agree that you can, infact make a decent extract beer with added specialty malts, hops, a 60min boil and decent yeast in the right conditions.
But if you're going to all that trouble, why not just go AG and have the freshest wort available?

Opening a packet of WhiteWings chocolate cake mix, adding an egg and a cup of milk, then throwing it into the oven, does not make me a baker, no more than opeining a tin makes you a brewer. it just means that you can ferment wort.

If you're serious about brewing beer, then get serious. Stop adding bit's and shits to your packet beer to make it taste better. Why not just make beer?

K&K isn't bang for buck, you actually get what you pay for, and a tin of cerveza and a kilo of sugar is going to taste like shit compared to what you could be making for just a few dollars more.

I'm actually thinking of posting a thread where i can make 9L of AG beer with nothing but the equpment in my kitchen for under $20.
That's without buying anything but the ingredients and not using my regular brewing gear.
If i can do that, how many of you would give it a go?

There is a stigma on this forum that AG is for 'advanced' brewers which is just a load of bullshit.
There is no ladder to climb, there is no pecking order, there is no "i know more than you because I have a higher post count and Ive been here for 5 years"
If you fall victim to that, then you're only limiting yourself by how other brewers perceive you.

They can rave on about "when i'm judging beers" and "that guys a noob" as much as they like after the dust has settled and everyone has gone home to try and gain some kind of higher status amongst their AHB peers, but for those who don't play the "I'll be like him one day" or "look at how many posts ive made", they just look like a wanker.

This is just beer, it's your beer, it's not a ******* social climbing ladder or a 'Schooling'.

if you extract brewers are so passionate about your beer, with the knowledge that no AG brewer would go back to Extract given the choice, Given that with 2x 19L pots from BigW for $40 and a pillow case, you can be making all grain beer. And be showing other new brewers just how rediculously easy it is, what's stopping you?

Seriously, what_the_hell_is_stopping_you?

Thanks for playing lads,

BF

 

[petesbrew]

ok, so I might have been keen to poke a bee hive yesterday to get some activity happening on here, and I totally enjoyed the back and forth.
Which I would also say it's safe to assume, so did a lot of you...
Today i'm a bit over battering you all it and am now a bit bored of it.

However, the trolling aside; the crux of my argument is in-fact undeniably true.

You don't need to 'practice' brewing on a K&K if you're just starting out.
You can start Brewing AG and still learn the the process of brewing. Chances are you'll make a much better beer than if it were a K&K.
Process and ingredients are not one on the same.
AG Brewing is not difficult.

there is no argument here that AG brewing is head and shoulders above any K&K brew given the same environmental conditions.
Process has no bearing on where the wort comes from. A hot FWK will still taste better than a hot K&K.

I will agree that you can, infact make a decent extract beer with added specialty malts, hops, a 60min boil and decent yeast in the right conditions.
But if you're going to all that trouble, why not just go AG and have the freshest wort available?

Opening a packet of WhiteWings chocolate cake mix, adding an egg and a cup of milk, then throwing it into the oven, does not make me a baker, no more than opeining a tin makes you a brewer. it just means that you can ferment wort.

If you're serious about brewing beer, then get serious. Stop adding bit's and shits to your packet beer to make it taste better. Why not just make beer?

K&K isn't bang for buck, you actually get what you pay for, and a tin of cerveza and a kilo of sugar is going to taste like shit compared to what you could be making for just a few dollars more.

I'm actually thinking of posting a thread where i can make 9L of AG beer with nothing but the equpment in my kitchen for under $20.
That's without buying anything but the ingredients and not using my regular brewing gear.
If i can do that, how many of you would give it a go?

There is a stigma on this forum that AG is for 'advanced' brewers which is just a load of bullshit.
There is no ladder to climb, there is no pecking order, there is no "i know more than you because I have a higher post count and Ive been here for 5 years"
If you fall victim to that, then you're only limiting yourself by how other brewers perceive you.

They can rave on about "when i'm judging beers" and "that guys a noob" as much as they like after the dust has settled and everyone has gone home to try and gain some kind of higher status amongst their AHB peers, but for those who don't play the "I'll be like him one day" or "look at how many posts ive made", they just look like a wanker.

This is just beer, it's your beer, it's not a ******* social climbing ladder or a 'Schooling'.

if you extract brewers are so passionate about your beer, with the knowledge that no AG brewer would go back to Extract given the choice, Given that with 2x 19L pots from BigW for $40 and a pillow case, you can be making all grain beer. And be showing other new brewers just how rediculously easy it is, what's stopping you?

Seriously, what_the_hell_is_stopping_you?

Thanks for playing lads,

BF

Yeah but some people aren't into this as a serious hobby, they're in it to have fun and make a cheap beer.

Then they start looking into how to make that beer taste better. Their can opener works fine - they don't want to get all the bells and whistles. And they certainly don't want to be looked down upon by an AG Elitist.

Yeah AG is easy... but you should've seen me getting led through my first AG day.... stressed out... "is it ready to mash yet?" questions.

You get into the serious stuff at your own leisure, as with any hobby/obsession.

 

[Tim]

 

[goomboogo]

Beerfingers, where did you get your glasses? I'd love a pair of those.