All-Grain Mash Confusion/Help!

[lswhi3]

Hey Guys,

So I am about to start my first all-grain batch that hasn't come from a recipe kit!

However, I'm a little confused because I'm sitting here with 7.7kg of grain, and I have to idea how much water I should mash it with. Usually the partial mash recipes give you about a kilo of grain and tell you to mix it with 4 litres of water..

Also, if it is 7.7kg of grain, but my pot is only about 6 litres, does that mean i can just mash a little bit of grain at a time and add them to the fermenter, and then just do the hops with the last mashed wort? Or do the hops need to be boiled with all of the wort?

Additionally, I'm confused with some liquid measurements. If the batch size is 5gallons (19L), then how many litres of wort should I end up with? And how much water should i place into the mash to start with? And does the 5 gallons include all the dead yeast you end up with at the bottom of the fermenter, which i believe is called trub loss, and if it doesn't include it, then how much water should I be filling up into the fermentor, or should I just follow the OG?

The full recipe it here: http://www.craftedpours.com/homebrew-recipe/clown-shoes-galactica-double-ipa-clone-homebrew-recipe

And I have looked at a calculator, but can't get my head around it: http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

I've got a feeling I've just bitten off more than I can chew, but may as well give it a go anyway!
Cheers guys,
Luke

 

[manticle]

I'm on a phone on holiday so sorry for brevity but 7.7 kg in 6L pot is way more than you should be chewing. You need to boil the resulting wort with hops rather than fermenter.
You need to start with different equipment and more knowledge - hopefully someone will help steer you in the right direction.

 

[.DJ.]

Yes, all the wort needs to be boiled all there will be all sort of nasties in your "beer"

you'll need a much bigger pot than 6 litres to use 7.7kgs of grain...

Really for your first all grain you are better off doing a simple beer of about 1.038 - 1.046 OG which will only require 3.5-4.5 kgs of grain....

 

[mkstalen]

Yeah you've bitten off more than you can chew...

You need between 2-3L of water per kg of grain for mashing. Then more for sparging. Then you need to boil the whole lot. Your 5Gal is about 19L. No way you're going to get it done in a 6L pot.

Search on here for the 20L stove top method.
Or just check this linky - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=60922&view=getnewpost

And a big IPA at 8% is probably going to be pushing it for stovetop... Aim for something a little easier and more forgiving for your first all grain.

 

[lswhi3]

Ok well, I've already got the 7.7kg of grain so I have to make the beer! haha.

So I understand I have to boil the grain after mashing in order to sterilise it. But I don't think I have to add the hops to all of the wort during the boil, i think I could just add the hops to the final wort that I'm boiling? Flavour will still be there as long as I give it a good swirl in the fermenter?

So what I am thinking, is that if someone can give me some advice on how much water to grain I should be using in the boil, I can gradually make the wort and put it in the fermenter as I go? How does that sound?

Also, I've got a thermometer so I can monitor the temps as I go

 

[lswhi3]

So 2-3L of water per kilo...

If I make it in 2kilo grain - 6 litres of water batches, including the mash, then the sparge, and then the hour boil for sterilisation and starch conversion... and I do this 3-4 times, and in the 4th time I add my hops, reckon that'll work well?

As I said I can monitor the temps as I go

 

[.DJ.]

I'd be halving the grain and making 2 standard strength beers using the stove top methods that hae been explained on here before... And use LME to make up any deficiency in gravity...

 

[lswhi3]

Sooo, let me get this straight. Is it not possible to simply mash/boil the grains in separate batches? and then boil the hops in the last batch? And then add it all together in the end for the ferment? Or will this mess with the flavour? I'm really keen for a hoppy IPA

 

[lswhi3]

If not... then why? Is it because hops are a flavour stabilizer and so all the wort need to be boiled with some hops? If so, I could split the columbus between the worts and boil for 60mins?

 

[lswhi3]

Or if I were to buy a 19L stock pot, would that suffice?

 

[manticle]

Splitting is fine but most mashes are 60 mins with boils another 60. Even with shorter mash and boil, you'll be there a while.

 

[Danwood]

Where abouts are you, Luke ?

I would suggest searching for clubs in your area. They're mines of information with knowledgeable and helpful members....usually !

Brew days with other members is where you'll pick up the tricks you need.

And, yes...a much bigger pot would be good. You'll get very, very bored waiting for 4 separate mashes to convert...you'd be looking at a very long brew day.

4x 45min mashes (and that's a short version, usually 60min...but with grain these days 45 is ok. There are numerous variables to consider. Research mash temperatures)
60 min boil (average)
3-4 hrs messing around cleaning up, spilling things, cleaning up....recurring !

 

[lswhi3]

Awesome, thanks for clarifying that!

I live in Mount Waverley, which is Eastern Suburbs Melbourne. I'm not really aware of any home brew clubs in the area.

Well, it seems as if I've got a very long and boring day ahead of me soon! Hopefully I can fit it in before exams get real. Next time I'll know not to use recipes with so much grain! ha.

Cheers guys!

 

[Screwtop]

Hmmm............. Ready.............. Fire.................Aim :unsure:

If you buy a 19L stockpot and can get a hold of an Esky of 30L volume and a grainbag, you could mash in the esky in a grainbag with 20L of water at 66C (add water at around 74C and wait for the temp to equalise and drop to 70C then add the grain, stir and close up for 60 Min) Lift out the bag, leave to drain and then pour the wort (around12L) into the stockpot. Replace the bag and add another 9.5L of water heated to 80C and stir, leave for 10 min and lift the bag again and save this first sparge wort in a bucket. Repeat by replacing the bag in the esky again and adding another 9.5L of 80C water and stir, wait for 10 min and lift the bag, this time leave the last sparge runnings in the esky.

Put the first runnings (12L) and 4L of your first sparge runnings (from the bucket) in the 19L pot and bring to a rolling boil (carefully, have a spray bottle of water ready if it looks like it may boil over) add your 60 min hops and whatever other additions are required and then syphon this wort from the 19L pot to your fermenter. Now combine what is left of the first sparge runnings in the bucket and the last runnings from the esky in the 19L pot and boil this for 60 min. Syphon this to your fermenter with the first boil and you will have Wort! Wait for it to cool to pitching temp (19C) and pitch your yeast.

Crude and there will be greater than normal boiloff losses due to the two boils, you could add boiled water to compensate. But, you will make beer................. a lot of dicking around, get yourself some equipment.

Screwy

 

[manticle]

Buy the 19L and a grain bag at the very least.
Do two brewdays and combine them in the fermenter to get through this lot. Start the ferment (add yeast) with the first lot as soon as it's cool enough, gently add the next lot in when boiled and cooled.
Look up simple BIAB (brew in a bag).

 

[surly]

Only had a very quick scan through this, so sorry if this has been covered, BUT, is your grain milled?

 

[Danwood]

Luke, I couldn't work out how to attach pics to the PM I sent, so here's a pic of a simple solution...especially if you're starting out on the stove top.

This is a 19L Big W pot I've drilled out to make a BIAB basket.

It would fit inside a 30L pot, so you'd mash in the 19L (plus a grain bag), and then lift it out and support it over the 30L pot on a wire rack while it drains. You would sparge (rinse the grains of remaining sugars) at this point also.

You could fire up the stove during this step to save a bit of time as the 19L pot acts as a lid of sorts for the 30L. You'll get to the boil quicker doing this.

Water (liquor) quantities would be around 20-23L of 70°C water (always add a few degrees to allow for cooling as you add the grain [strike temp]). Make sure the bag and basket are already in the 30L pot before you reach 70°C as this'll cool the water too if you add it just before the grain.
Your sparge water should be around 75°C and add as much as you need to fill the 30L to about 3/4 full. You don't want it too full...boil-overs are no fun at all.

This method can deal with 6ish kg of grain, maybe 7 if you really pushed it.

You would produce beers up to around 6%abv and 21ish litres. Stronger beers would be possible but in smaller batches, you boil for longer to reduce and concentrate the wort.

Anyway, there's a bit to think about. It'd be very similar to my rig, but a bit smaller.

You should be able to turn out some respectable beers with minimal outlay on kit. Move onto your 100L steam jacketed, march pump driven, 316 stainless HERMS rig with full tri-clover couplings when you've found your feet.

Believe all of us on AHB...you WILL want ALL of the above kit eventually !!

 

[The Village Idiot]

Not wanting to state the obvious but .... don't boil the grain!! Surely somebody in your area can give you a hand/or demo.

Download Brewmate, Its free

 

[Danwood]

BTW-The above mash temp would be 67-68°C. Which should result in a fairly full-bodied beer, depending on grain bill.
And there's a myriad of small adjustments and alternative procedures which could be debated. ..but as a bare-bones starting point, you should produce a decent beer, assuming good cleaning procedures, which is half the battle with brewing.

Also, I'm not too far from you if you wanted to have a brew day in the future.

Aaand finally...Melbourne Brewers are a recommended brew club who meet in Boronia once a month...along with numerous competitions and other events over the year. I'm a former member myself.

Arrrgh...my poor thumbs...stupid phone typing !!

 

[Steve]

Here's a link to a site I used to get my head around the AG process when I first started doing AG. Go through all the pics and it'll give you more of an idea of how to do it:

http://cruisenews.net/brewing/infusion/page1.php

Also have a read of How to Brew by John Palmer (free PDF):

http://www.howtobrew.com/

Sounds like you need to need to get a bit more of an understanding before you start. i.e. you don't boil the grain after mashing it...you boil the wort that you have extracted from the grain.

Just because you have 7.7kg of grain doesn't mean you have to use all of it. Where did the figure of 7.7kg come from?

Cheers
Steve