Ballaratguy
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If you were on the west side I’d certainly be more than interested
All About Canning - Cannular Can Seamers and More...
- Thread starter KegLand-com-au
- Start date
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Liquidmalisha
Member
Hey mate, I got a response from Visy today-
- We hold stocks of plain unprinted silver cans in all sizes and black cans are generally available as well. The MOQ for these is 1 full pallet or 2 half pallets. ( MOQ = 7391)
- Our ends (lids) are priced at $40.85 per thousand ends. The 375ml cans are priced at $180.59 per thousand.
- We can produce unprinted cans in any colour, though some colours may attract our print MOQ of 50,000.
We have started a small bulk buy to get the tap cooler Counter pressure counter filler, direct from Norway. The thread is "counter Pressure Can filler"
The product we are buying is:
https://www.tapcooler.no/en/counter-pressure-filler-c-4/canning-station-p-25
if you have a canning machine, this could be a useful thing to have along with the counter pressure filler.
If interested, add your name to the list and we can all get one.
Keg-King doesn't seem to have plans to get these in at the moment, so this will be the only way to get one in the short term.
The product we are buying is:
https://www.tapcooler.no/en/counter-pressure-filler-c-4/canning-station-p-25
if you have a canning machine, this could be a useful thing to have along with the counter pressure filler.
If interested, add your name to the list and we can all get one.
Keg-King doesn't seem to have plans to get these in at the moment, so this will be the only way to get one in the short term.
Liquidmalisha
Member
I just seamed an empty can and squeezed under water
Ha, yep that will work
Hey guys. the best way to test the seam of your can is to pressurise the can and keep raising the pressure until it ruptures.
We would normally do this with a device that we have made that punctures the can than we use a pump to pump up the can. If the can bursts at 92psi or higher we consider that to be a pass.
With that said if you do not want to make a device or do not have time to do this then you can also just use soda water. One of the beautiful things about cans is they have some inbuilt pressure protection. The lid and base of the can are designed in such a way that the lid will buckle outwards and/or the concave base will buckle outwards. The cans are designed so this buckling will occur at about 90psi.
So one very easy test you can do without any special equipment is fill the can with soda water (as full as you can go) then heat the can up in a water bath. As the temperature increases the pressure will increase. If the can buckles on the lid or base before the can bursts then you know your seam is capable of holding up to about 90psi. So this is considered a pass.
If the seam breaks before the lid or base buckle then your seam is the weak link and you should re-tune the gap settings. The seam should be strong enough to buckle the lid or base of the can.
The buckling is also an integrated safety functions of cans. It not only shows visually the beer or other beverage has got too hot/or is over carbonated/or some other issue, but also the increase in volume of the can when it buckles makes the pressure drop further offsetting the final time at which the can ruptures.
We would normally do this with a device that we have made that punctures the can than we use a pump to pump up the can. If the can bursts at 92psi or higher we consider that to be a pass.
With that said if you do not want to make a device or do not have time to do this then you can also just use soda water. One of the beautiful things about cans is they have some inbuilt pressure protection. The lid and base of the can are designed in such a way that the lid will buckle outwards and/or the concave base will buckle outwards. The cans are designed so this buckling will occur at about 90psi.
So one very easy test you can do without any special equipment is fill the can with soda water (as full as you can go) then heat the can up in a water bath. As the temperature increases the pressure will increase. If the can buckles on the lid or base before the can bursts then you know your seam is capable of holding up to about 90psi. So this is considered a pass.
If the seam breaks before the lid or base buckle then your seam is the weak link and you should re-tune the gap settings. The seam should be strong enough to buckle the lid or base of the can.
The buckling is also an integrated safety functions of cans. It not only shows visually the beer or other beverage has got too hot/or is over carbonated/or some other issue, but also the increase in volume of the can when it buckles makes the pressure drop further offsetting the final time at which the can ruptures.
We did consider making this product but it's a product that is a massive pain in the but to use and makes can filling quite slow. In terms of having low DO(dissolved oxygen) it's quite easy to get DO of lower than 70ppb with hardware as simple as the bottle filling gun. This is much faster to use and it gives excellent results and is lower cost. When filling cans most commercial canning done by breweries is not with counter pressure and it's really quite uncommon to use counter pressure for filling beer into cans. The most important thing to getting low DO is to "cap on foam". So when the lid of the can is placed onto the foam it's literally pushing some of the foam out of the way. This is highly effective at evacuating oxygen from the head space and takes no special equipment to do. Acceptable results can be achieved right off the beer tap if you are "capping on foam" but better results can be achieved with the gun.
If you are not concerned about DO and you primarily want to use counter pressure because you are getting too much foam when filling cans then the answer is to chill your beer a bit cooler. If you have very cold beer you can fill the cans much faster. I would recommend slightly sub zero if you want to really get the job done fast.
With that said keen to hear what you guys think of this "counter pressure canning device". Very few were sold in Australia to date but if anyone has experience with these please share with the rest of us.
I found this hilarious. Along the lines of the old "its only funny until someone gets hurt - then its hilarious!"
Hate to think of some home brewer peering into a pot of boiling water watching a can of sodawater get cooked then finding out their seam wasn't quite up to snuff and the head has decided to let go, violently. A face full of boiling water would be an expected outcome.
Not what I would call good advice. Hope you have really really good insurance, but I suspect even that wouldn't help you in court, which is where I suspect this sort of advice will see you.
Mark
Thanks for that Mark. This procedure is used broadly by many commercial breweries. If the can is filled to the brim you will find the explosion to be not as "violent" as you think. The potential energy in the explosion is mostly a function of the compressed gas in the head space. I am frequently right next to the container when the explosion happens and I can tell you I have never had an issue nor has any brewery that we communicate with.
With that said if our customer base feels they do not want to make a mess or get a splash on them then they can simply use a lid. If they do not have a lid then put a plastic bag over the pot.
As mentioned in the previous post the best way is to use a pump but paying several hundred dollars for a pump and device that can pressurise the can in a controlled way may not be what JnR_Mc is looking for. With that said if we have a solution for customers that is low cost and low tech that still works. We believe our customer base is clever enough to work it out safely. With that said would be keen to hear what you other guys think? Should we refrain from telling you guys about these low tech methods and just stick to the "professional" solutions? Would be keen to hear what other customers think?
Ballaratguy
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Why not just turn your filled can (beer or water or anything with some gas in it) turn upside down and squeeze
The liquid will foam as it leaks out
Simple
The liquid will foam as it leaks out
Simple
In order to really test the can properly you need to squeeze the can hard enough to get up to 90-100psi. This is so much squeezing that you will deform the can by squeezing and therefor you cannot be sure the top and bottom are buckling under pressure as they could just be buckling due to the deformation caused by squeezing.
The testing in water, and heating it up, sounds like a fairly simple way to test (a large old pasta pot with a lid). Currently, i have a can that has been sitting in the window sill, indirect light/heat, which seems to release the CO2 from solution also. The can is nice and hard still and seems to be holding pressure. I'll let it sit there for a week or so and see how it goes.
As I said, I'm also keen to test your suggested way
Cheers
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When I first started canning, I got some cans of a professional mobile canning business and they recommended a similar process to test seams. They said to fill a couple of cans with coke and then turn upside down in a pot of water, raise the temp to 60 to 70 degrees and if the seam is going to leak you'll see it in the water.
Kegland, keep the low cost and low tech solutions coming. I'm a big boy and can figure out how to do these sort of things safely.
Kegland, keep the low cost and low tech solutions coming. I'm a big boy and can figure out how to do these sort of things safely.
marrickvillemike
New Member
Hi guys, I bought a Cannular in early December. I have only had the chance to start using it in the last couple of days. Cant quite dial it in so am asking for tips. I have the measurements from the manual lined up but still no luck. I have included pics, Pic 1 is just the first roll op, Pic 2 is both roll ops and the video is a filled can with soda water and leaks. I have gone through a few cans already and would love to nail this thing. I don't know why its not easier to dial in Kegland. Im in the inner west of Sydney. Thanks 
marrickvillemike
New Member
Wow they look awesome
After fine tuning my Cannular with feeler gauges to the specs on Keglands instructions I am getting close to 100% successful seals compared to around 80% out of the box. If you are a member of Keglands facebook group there is a fair bit of info with a search on setting up the Cannular and Henri is a champ at helping you through it all giving you advice from your photos you supplied.
Hey guys. Once the machine is tuned in then you should be getting a good seam on 100% of the cans especially if you are using the semi-auto machine. We still get the odd can on the manual machine that some people have issues with but this is often because the they have used the lever for too long on the manual machine. All you need on the manual machine is a short pull in both directions. Less than 1 sec is fine for each movement.
Sorry we were a bit slow to reply to this thread. We have been on holiday and it looks like you have solved the problem now on your own. If you have any other issues be sure to let you know and I am sure we will get it solved.
Sorry we were a bit slow to reply to this thread. We have been on holiday and it looks like you have solved the problem now on your own. If you have any other issues be sure to let you know and I am sure we will get it solved.
Icebreaker
New Member
Hi!
I've been searching the internet for Cannular's information. I want to 200ml cans, is that possible?
Best regards,
Icebreaker
I've been searching the internet for Cannular's information. I want to 200ml cans, is that possible?
Best regards,
Icebreaker
It's quite possible that we make the semi-auto cannular so it can suit the 250ml red bull style cans that are a smaller diameter. We have been getting some people ask about this for cold brew coffee and some other non-beer beverages. We are in the process of negotiation with some can suppliers to work out which cans we end up using for these.
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