AHB Wiki: Keg Spear Removal II

[domonsura]

NOW who's getting defensive LC.....how does it go? RDWHAHB???

Specifically I disagree with the use of an angle grinder, as it's not necessary and the article was detailing a how to WITHOUT using an angle grinder. Specifically, how to open it WITHOUT causing ANY damage. Your method causes damage. Any monkey can take a shortcut and cut something open with an angle grinder.

And I call it correct, because in lieu of having the correct tool (as I've already stated) it is the next easiest way to do the job without damaging the keg in any way. As far as I'm concerned, if it causes damage, then it's CLEARLY not the right way to do it. Pretty damned simple really. The same applies to the advice to 'use a screwdriver in the ball seal to release the pressure' I mean for crying out loud man!!!! It's a SEAL!!!

I'm not after 'one way information flow' or trying to grandstand as you seem to want to imply. I'm wanting to keep the article focused in the correct direction, and that is doing the job without causing ANY damage to the vessel.
I didn't see the value in anything you added to the article. Turning the keg on it's side makes it unstable which is counterproductive. Using the angle grinder causes damage. I don't think it was unclear that the spear was being turned clockwise - the sequence of pictures is good enough. I have no control over DIY'ers being hasty to start forcing things in the wrong direction.

So overall, I see it as an attempt on your part to put your 2 cents worth in where it's not needed in THIS particular case. Had you DISCUSSED your proposed changes before you made them, in THIS thread that was started (gee, is that what discussion thread means?) I might have had a chance to make my concerns known before you butchered the article up. You talk about things not being your problem if a reader can't figure the wiki flow out? When it's you that's interupted the flow in the first place? Most people just want to read the article, and don't bother reading the edits.........THAT'S one of the issues I have with people making edits...because they don't give a crap that they may have made things less clear to the final reader - they just want to have some input. In any way they can in some cases it would appear........

 

[LethalCorpse]

NOW who's getting defensive LC.....how does it go? RDWHAHB???

Specifically I disagree with the use of an angle grinder, as it's not necessary and the article was detailing a how to WITHOUT using an angle grinder. Specifically, how to open it WITHOUT causing ANY damage. Your method causes damage. Any monkey can take a shortcut and cut something open with an angle grinder.

And I call it correct, because in lieu of having the correct tool (as I've already stated) it is the next easiest way to do the job without damaging the keg in any way. As far as I'm concerned, if it causes damage, then it's CLEARLY not the right way to do it. Pretty damned simple really. The same applies to the advice to 'use a screwdriver in the ball seal to release the pressure' I mean for crying out loud man!!!! It's a SEAL!!!

I'm not after 'one way information flow' or trying to grandstand as you seem to want to imply. I'm wanting to keep the article focused in the correct direction, and that is doing the job without causing ANY damage to the vessel.
I didn't see the value in anything you added to the article. Turning the keg on it's side makes it unstable which is counterproductive. Using the angle grinder causes damage. I don't think it was unclear that the spear was being turned clockwise - the sequence of pictures is good enough. I have no control over DIY'ers being hasty to start forcing things in the wrong direction.

So overall, I see it as an attempt on your part to put your 2 cents worth in where it's not needed in THIS particular case. Had you DISCUSSED your proposed changes before you made them, in THIS thread that was started (gee, is that what discussion thread means?) I might have had a chance to make my concerns known before you butchered the article up. You talk about things not being your problem if a reader can't figure the wiki flow out? When it's you that's interupted the flow in the first place? Most people just want to read the article, and don't bother reading the edits.........THAT'S one of the issues I have with people making edits...because they don't give a crap that they may have made things less clear to the final reader - they just want to have some input. In any way they can in some cases it would appear........

Calm down domonsura. Your rhetoric is increasingly agitated, and it's not helpful. Note that I haven't made any attempt to reinstate my change after you unilaterally deleted it. I'm still here because I reckon vigorous and open debate is the only way to forward our collective understanding, so we're debating the issue at hand. That can't happen if any of the proponents is unwilling to listen to and address the arguments of the other side, or tries to "play the man instead of the ball". I'm playing the ball, and have from the start.

You disagree with my proposed method, but I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive. I think it's pretty clear when looking at our combined efforts which way is more likely to keep the keg in pristine condition. If that's what the reader wants to do, the option is there for them. If they want to get it done quickly and that Jesus-clip is giving them grief, the angle grinder option is there too. I think the reader should be able to make up their own mind, given all of th possible options. They should be smart enough to ignore anything which doesn't suit them.

You're keen to saddle me with all manner of unpleasant motives and attitudes. First I'm writing an instruction for illegal activity, now I'm just interested in sticking my oar in, indiscriminately butchering articles and kegs in my path. My objective was to assist the reader in the job of removing a spear, same as yours. I still think that my edit to the article was helpful, in that it provided more, or clearer, information to the reader, and did so without detracting from the original article in any way. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think so, and I wouldn't have kept defending it if my mind had been changed. I'm here to learn new information and pass on the things I've already learnt. If I think I can be helpful, I will, if I don't, I won't. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong, but I won't just be told that I'm wrong without arguing my case. That comment to bunyip in my last post wasn't defensive, it was serious - if I've posted something which he reckons isn't helpful, point it out and let's talk about it. I reckon any such post is going to be irrelevant to the proceedings here, though, and should be discussed in its associated thread.

I don't think you're grandstanding, that's an unfortunate interpretation of my pulpit reference. I think you're genuinely upset that something you put effort into working on had been changed, and I can appreciate that. I feel the same way about my edits being wiped and dismissed as butchering and illegality.

 

[HKS]

There are plenty of places to buy the correct tool (Sanke knife) for removing the snap ring and its cheap.

http://morebeer.com/view_product/7544/1034...25fb72475b47a97
http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/754...PSESSID=e3690d9
http://www.stpats.com/oakbarrels.htm

 

[LethalCorpse]

Very nice! Though why you'd need it if the keg's already got the keyways (the manufactured version of what I'm suggesting), I don't know.

 

[domonsura]

I'm not agitated mate :lol: - that would be your interpretation of my 'rhetoric', it's not really any skin off my nose at all to be honest.....and I don't think we're going to achieve anything by debating further.
I stated why I dis-agreed with your method and statements and that's not going to change. Lets just leave it at that - you do what you want - but if I see something that presents information that would condone/recommend damaging a vessel, in an article that I am an author of and therefore mis-represents me or my business - I will 'unilaterally' (as you put it) remove it without discussion because I have a reputation to look after and I will not be a part of recommending damage to a perfectly good keg.

End of discussion.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Our old swan kegs (flat tops) are really easy to remove! another reason to move West. :icon_cheers:Healthy debate though.Angle grinders at 50 paces.
GB

 

[Linz]

I'm surprised the Mods haven't delete BOTH threads in relation to the topic, as these kegs are not legally allowed to be in your possession anyways!! therefore illegal activity......

Specifically Posts/Topics will be removed (at the discretion of the administrators/moderators) if:

They contain an unacceptable amount of offensive language
They are considered abusive
They threaten, slander or insult other AHB users
They are distasteful, vulgar or contain offensive pornographic material
They discuss illegal material (such as spirit distilling and the unlawful acquisition of equipment (eg. brewery owned kegs).
They are not in the context of the forum (eg are SPAM or requesting referral credits (eg. please click on this link so i get money)
They complain about moderation - PM is there for a reason
They are discussing administrative decisions - PM is there for a reason.


"look, ma, at all those worms crawling out of that can!!!" B)

 

[domonsura]

So go ahead, delete both threads and the wiki article Won't phase me one little bit, and it will definitely stop the debate

 

[chovain]

I'm surprised the Mods haven't delete BOTH threads in relation to the topic, as these kegs are not legally allowed to be in your possession anyways!! therefore illegal activity......

It's only illegal to have brewery owned kegs in your possession. This article applies to all Sankey kegs, regardless of their origin. There have been a number of threads in the past on how to legally get your hands on 50L kegs - I'm pretty sure they're Sankey.

 

[LethalCorpse]

I've one last question, which explains my initial comment that it's not always possible to remove the clip, and the edit in the first place. In the photos in the article, the ends of the clip are angled in the same direction, such that one makes an acute angle to the collar, and the other makes a reflex angle to the collar. You're able to get the point of the tool in behind the acute angle and lever it out. In the photos added to this thread, the ends of the clip are angled in opposite directions, such that they both make a reflex angle to the collar, leaving no easy way to get the point of a tool behind them and provide leverage - as I said, the tool has to have both a very fine point to get behind the sharp end of the clip, and be strong enough to lever it without bending. How should such a clip be removed?

 

[bugwan]

How should such a clip be removed?

Angle grinder h34r:

 

[LethalCorpse]

that's what I thought, but I wasn't game to say it

 

[domonsura]

With a bit more care and patience...... I know it sounds like a big ask, but you just have to be able to get something in behind the clip. Some of them take more effort than others, but I've never had to take stronger measures with a keg unless someone had already tried to force it or smacked it with a hammer etc.....

 

[schooey]

How should such a clip be removed?

Drill a couple of 2mm holes in each end of the clip and use some circlip pliers

 

[paul]

Im with Domonsura on this one. Ive opened about a dozen kegs with just an oring pick and a screwdriver to remove the snapring. As already stated replace it with a circlip.

Using a grinder is rough as guts.