Adding salts to boil

[eldertaco]

I've been adding salts and acid to my strike and sparge water for a while now, but I was having a bit of a read around yesterday and it seems some people add salts to the boil.

Anyone here adding salts to the boil? What's the reasoning?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

If you have your water "salted" for strike and sparge then you wont need to add any to the boil

 

[mtb]

I can only assume it'd be done to increase the sodium content, for yeast health. But you could just add that to the mash too.

 

[eldertaco]

Sorry I maybe should have been more clear I meant just the usual suspects like gypsum and CaCl2

 

[seamad]

Adding salts to the boil is akin to seasoning food imo. I've mucked around a little with it, but never done a side by side test to compare. Normally aim for 100ppm Ca in the mash, some of which ( 50% ?) is retained. I've then added to the boil various amounts depending on beer style. I like my beer, whether or not those boil additions played a significant part, who the **** knows. Have a shot at it.

 

[manticle]

I add salts to kettle and mash, acid only to sparge.

Make sure mash and sparge pH are where you want and chloride/sulphate balanced in favour of desired beer profile overall.

 

[mtb]

The only scenario where I could imagine someone adding gypsum/chloride to the boil is where their base water is already the correct acidity, and they want to fiddle with the sulfate:chloride ratio, but don't have any chalk on hand to up the pH to counteract the gypsum/chloride. Pretty rare though.

 

[eldertaco]

I add salts to kettle and mash, acid only to sparge.

Make sure mash and sparge pH are where you want and chloride/sulphate balanced in favour of desired beer profile overall.

That confirms what I thought people who were adding salts to the boil do, ie with regard to only using acid for sparge and moving salts from sparge to boil.

What's your reasoning for doing it this way instead of just adding the salts to your sparge though?

Is it maybe to limit their interaction with the grain in the mash and maybe leave more available for interaction with hops in the boil?

Just trying to understand what the difference is [emoji848]

 

[rude]

I use R/O water & use Brun Water software to calculate
For a pale beer say a Kolsch I add Caso4 & CaCI2 to the mash which has some acid malt in the grist
to get to my desired ph
The rest goes straight into the boil this gets my ppms of calcium, sulphate & chloride where I want it
Always done it this way & my beers seem ok to me

 

[manticle]

Calcium in the mash and calcium in the boil are both beneficial. Not sure how much gets bound up and left behind in the mash so I add a touch to the kettle too. Sulphate and/or chloride are for flavour/palate so as above - like seasoning a soup.

I researched water chem basics a few years ago and have forgotten a few things now but that is the idea from memory.

 

[Dae Tripper]

Gypsum to the boil for me, helps make the hops sparkle.

 

[MHB]

The only scenario where I could imagine someone adding gypsum/chloride to the boil is where their base water is already the correct acidity, and they want to fiddle with the sulfate:chloride ratio, but don't have any chalk on hand to up the pH to counteract the gypsum/chloride. Pretty rare though.

There is no way that adding Sulphate or Chloride to the mash will get the pH down low enough to even reach ideal mash pH's let alone low enough to need to be adding Carbonate (Ok maybe a really dark malt rich >20% roast, stout grain bill would get close), an extremely big black stout is about the only time you would even think of adding Chalk.
There are some very real benefits to adding Calcium to the kettle - it encourages break formation, even helps the yeast to flock out properly at the end of the ferment.
If you have enough at the start of the mash, there should be enough to get most of the benefits of adequate Ca, provided you start with at least 50-100ppm and your water is low in carbonate to start with. I tend to start with about 150ppm of Ca in what ever form you like, but that's in Newcastle water that is low in most salts.

Have a look at how Ca salts lower pH through the formation of Ca Phosphates, there is a finite amount of Phosphate in malt, remember to that the pH of a Ca salt solution isn't acidic (well not very).
Mark

 

[eldertaco]

All very interesting, I might try moving my sparge additions to the boil on the next batch.

 

[MHB]

Carefully! - you want some salts in the mash water, sparge water should be acidified at a minimum, if not fully treated.
Adding more to the boil usually late is supplemental rather than a replacement for additions to the mash/sparge.
Rarely in brewing is it an either/or choice, most choices are compromises rather than absolutes...
Mark

 

[eldertaco]

I normally just use Brun water to target either one of the profiles or aim for a specific sulfate:chloride ratio while keeping the pH within range using a touch of lactic acid, but it doesn't actually make any mention of boil additions.

Would I be better off moving half of the sparge additions (not including acid obviously) to the boil or just sticking with what it suggests and adding a bit extra to the boil maybe?

Without going overboard obviously, maybe 5 or so grams of gypsum to help with hop character for example...

 

[manticle]

I split mine

 

[rude]

My sparge addition goes to the kettle

 

[Dan Pratt]

I've tried it a few times on pale ales and IPA s adding gypsum to 100ppm and calcium chloride 30ppm.


I've got a copy of Pliney the Elder recipe sheet which someone posted online from late 2014. They add gypsum and cal chloride with 10mins to go in the boil.

I've also ready with other brewerys that make IPAs that add more gypsum with the 90min hop additions.

 

[fungrel]

I'll always add ~60ppm calcium (calcium hydroxide) to ales at the start of the boil, but I always use acid at the same time to ensure I'm at correct boil pH. If you add salts later in the boil it will change the pH but not as much as adding at the start of the boil.

I never really add chloride / sulfate, I seem to get good hop character from mash only additions. I add calcium in boil because I find an identical recipe with same grist etc seems to floc and clear better with more calcium going into the boil / fermenter.

 

[MHB]

What acid are you adding?
Ca(OH)2 +Acid = the Salt + water i.e. Sulphuric makes Calcium Sulphate, Chloride makes Calcium Chloride, Lactic makes Calcium Lactate (lets not even think about what Phosphoric does, except that its pretty insoluble). My local HBS stocks the salts above, adding a strong base, then neutralising it appears to be a fairly involuted way to get to the same place.
Seriously why?
Mark