About To Dump 60 Ltr's Of Beer

[mxd]

I have just done 4 lagers in a row, using the same fermenter and reduced yeast cake,

The first was a Schwarzbier, very nice, I then did the following,

Munich Dunkel,
Boh Pil
German Pil.

The Munich dunkel tasted fine during fermenting and kegged it up, the Boh Pil I thought had a bit of a sweet taste when it got the FG so I added some hops and let it CC for a while then kegged it up. The munich Dunkel had now been in the keg 6-7 weeks so I tried it and it had a peperminty/plasticy type smell and flavour, no idea what it was. I then tired the boh pil, the same thing, I then tried the German Pil (still in fermenter) and it was the same as well.

So I assumed there was some infection that I missed on the munich dunkel that I spread through (still maybe true). I kept tasting it and couldn't get it down to any type of "standard" infection. Then I happened to think it smells like the fridge I'm using. My fermenting freezer blew up a while ago, so I used a wine fridge we had (it was brand new and not used), I have used this for a few ales and it seemed fine, I then tried a lager and it was ok.

So today I'm about to put a Kolsch down (there already a pale in their) and was complaining to the wife about the beers I'm going to throw and she mentioned maybe the smell/taste in the beer come from the fridge. I didn't think this was it so I poured a glass smelt and then stuck my head in the fridge, and it's very bloody close to identical. So I went and smelt the fermenter I used (it had 4 brews so it was probably in the fridge for 12 weeks) and it had the same odour.

So I went and pulled the pale ale out and tasted it and it's fine, I have put that in the garage now, but I smacked my Kolsch pack and it's ready to go.

So I've just opened the fridge up, given it a wipe with vanilla essence, I have a "fridge" smell remover somewhere so will put that in and hope for the best (I'm heading away for 3 days).

So now, I will throw one fermenter away (and 3 kegs of beer), check the other 2 fermenter and brews when I've completed the fermenting and not use this fridge again.

 

[loikar]

I don't see how your fridge smell permeated the fermenter which is also under pressure by CO2 pushing from the inside out.

I would hazard a guess that the smell has come from the fermenter and made your fridge smell, rather than the other way around.

 

[Yob]

sad news indeed... all that effort

I came home from hols and fouind the circut had tripped and all my fridges were growing mould, very lukily they hadnt quite breeeched the FV's, a healthy spray and wipe and then a starsan wipe has restored them to former glory..

my lesson learned though was to clean up any spillage as quickly as possible... ooh they is shiny now.

I think my brewing fridges got more of a treatment than the food fridge which reeked after a week without power. (I cant say for sure though as SWMBO cleaned that one while I was busy on important buisness)

Sorry for your loss

 

[mxd]

I don't see how your fridge smell permeated the fermenter which is also under pressure by CO2 pushing from the inside out.

I would hazard a guess that the smell has come from the fermenter and made your fridge smell, rather than the other way around.

could be, I thought the fermenter absorbed the aroma ?

I owe Fents a bottle for the lotto, so I'll send him one of the "infected" ones to see if he can pick the infection.

 

[Greg.L]

This is the potential problem with re-using yeast. There is no way to keep a culture pure in a domestic situation, normally the other yeast strains that contaminate would not cause off flavours but there is always the possibility of a spoilage organism getting in. To blame your fridge is really stretching things. It think it is worth the cost of a yeast sachet for peace of mind.

 

[1974Alby]

I owe Fents a bottle for the lotto, so I'll send him one of the "infected" ones to see if he can pick the infection.

lol...interesting way to get feedback!..makes me feel better about not winning the lotto

 

[brettprevans]

Mate did we ever do that keg/fermentor swap to check for infections?

 

[mxd]

lol...interesting way to get feedback!..makes me feel better about not winning the lotto

I actually meant as well as a non-infected one, just to try and get an experienced brewers thoughts

 

[mxd]

Mate did we ever do that keg/fermentor swap to check for infections?

no, that was 1 brew (60 ltrs) of esb, I have had 2 60 ltr brews (esb and boh pil) I have thrown out for those I was assuming it was a brew issue not fermenting prob

 

[pcmfisher]

So will you be reusing yeast cakes like that anymore?

 

[///]

Re use yeast yes, but continuing to dump onto yeast cakes, no.

Way too much dead yeast, excess protein etc as you go thru the generations. Easiest way is to have a spray bottle with sanitiser (peroxitane is good), clean/sanitise a wide mouth jar and soup spoon, collect about 250-300mls of yeast slurry from the cake (spraying all surfaces throughout) and pop into the fridge with glad wrap and an elastic band over it. You may need to let out any CO2 that builds up ... thats if you cannot use the yeast on the day you empty the FV and can scoop straight in.

If you dont use within 3-4 days dump the yeast ...

Probably the critical thing is not cleaning the yeast ring from the top of the FV ... all sorts of trouble right there by the 3rd or 4th batch ...

Scotty

ps. had to dump 3800l the otherweek as a blocked spray ball did not clean the yeast ring off properly and the beer went wonkie ... so I share your pain.

 

[jbowers]

ps. had to dump 3800l the otherweek as a blocked spray ball did not clean the yeast ring off properly and the beer went wonkie ... so I share your pain.

Now that is what I call a waste of malt and hops..... h34r:

 

[///]

Now that is what I call a waste of malt and hops..... h34r:

Not a waste, more a tragedy. Thankfully I do not make a habit of either practices ... as you would know.

Scotty

 

[Nick JD]

Re use yeast yes, but continuing to dump onto yeast cakes, no.

Way too much dead yeast, excess protein etc as you go thru the generations. Easiest way is to have a spray bottle with sanitiser (peroxitane is good), clean/sanitise a wide mouth jar and soup spoon, collect about 250-300mls of yeast slurry from the cake (spraying all surfaces throughout) and pop into the fridge with glad wrap and an elastic band over it. You may need to let out any CO2 that builds up ... thats if you cannot use the yeast on the day you empty the FV and can scoop straight in.

If you dont use within 3-4 days dump the yeast ...

Probably the critical thing is not cleaning the yeast ring from the top of the FV ... all sorts of trouble right there by the 3rd or 4th batch ...

Scotty

ps. had to dump 3800l the otherweek as a blocked spray ball did not clean the yeast ring off properly and the beer went wonkie ... so I share your pain.

When I've got to the bottom of the fermenter (transfering to secondary or into the keg) I leave about 200ml of beer. Then gently swirl the trub so the top surface of the trub mixes with the 200ml of beer and goes cloudy.

Then it's a simple matter of bottling this muddy beer into a 300ml PET bottle.

It settles out in the fridge and can be directly pitched within a week of two. Longer storage times I use it to make a 2L starter which fires almost instantly.

I regularly get 5 batches from a smackpack this way.

 

[///]

When I've got to the bottom of the fermenter (transfering to secondary or into the keg) I leave about 200ml of beer. Then gently swirl the trub so the top surface of the trub mixes with the 200ml of beer and goes cloudy.

Then it's a simple matter of bottling this muddy beer into a 300ml PET bottle.

It settles out in the fridge and can be directly pitched within a week of two. Longer storage times I use it to make a 2L starter which fires almost instantly.

I regularly get 5 batches from a smackpack this way.

You can always decant some off and used cooled boiled water instead of beer to go on top. Have had a few where the yeast does not stop straight away, on opening the bottle i have then had a yeast shower ... sucks to clean up ...

Scotty

 

[mxd]

So will you be reusing yeast cakes like that anymore?

probably

For my big beers, e.g bock, I do a small beer first then use the whole yeast cake, normally I take a cup of slurry and put it into another fermenter, this time I "disposed" of slurry and left a cup of slurry in the same fermenter.

 

[Greg.L]

Does the OP use the same fermenter without even cleaning it? That would be asking for trouble.

Any way that you re-use yeast you will have a mixed population of microbes, with a possibility of a spoilage organism being there. When you start with a fresh yeast, whether wild or cultured, the population of spoilage microbes starts so low there is very little chance they can produce off-flavours. Re-use the yeast and you are giving the spoilage bugs a leg up, they can start with a good viable population. makes no sense at all to me.

 

[Nick JD]

Does the OP use the same fermenter without even cleaning it? That would be asking for trouble.

Any way that you re-use yeast you will have a mixed population of microbes, with a possibility of a spoilage organism being there. When you start with a fresh yeast, whether wild or cultured, the population of spoilage microbes starts so low there is very little chance they can produce off-flavours. Re-use the yeast and you are giving the spoilage bugs a leg up, they can start with a good viable population. makes no sense at all to me.

There are actually a few advantages to reusing yeast. Not sure exactly why (could make a few guesses) but with some strains the second generation seems to produce a better beer (3068 is a classic for doing this), and it's not a pitch rate thing.

I've been reading into the interaction between the bacteria and wild yeasts that are always present in fermenting beer and it's not as simple as most of us think. Good beer is never made without interaction with "spoilage" organisms.

Still, if you're bad with sanitisation regimes then it's not a good idea.

 

[mxd]

Does the OP use the same fermenter without even cleaning it? That would be asking for trouble.

not normally

 

[O'Henry]

You can always decant some off and used cooled boiled water instead of beer to go on top. Have had a few where the yeast does not stop straight away, on opening the bottle i have then had a yeast shower ... sucks to clean up ...

Scotty

+1. Shower time!