A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[Adamt]

The pot is a 50L aluminium. I've got the nasa from Ray's. The pot actually sits on top of where the wind shield, possibly not the best place for efficient heating, but still got a boil in 15 minutes. The real problem is getting a low enough gas flow to not blow out the match lol. I'm buying a kitchen lighter.

 

[PistolPatch]

Adam, I should have also said congratulations on your first AG mate! The best bit was that you obviously had a lot of fun. How'd you go with your SG reading? Did it turn out right?

Like FNQ, my brewing got hijacked this weekend. Lucky this grain is vacuum-sealed - I've been trying to brew for a month now! If I knock off early tomorrow I'll do the escaltor mash then.

 

[Adamt]

Well, my trusty mother cleaned up after me, well not really; she threw out my unpitched wort sample to test :angry:

The morning after pitching it was bubbling and at 1.030, so I guess it wouldn't have been much higher than 1.035? MIDSTRENGTH! ARGH!

Down to 1.010 now, smells/tastes caramelly, maybe the mash temp was buggered, most of the caramalt converted but not much of the pale/other malts, resulting in a higher % of caramalt in the beer than expected? It's gonna be quite bitter too for the midstrength, 38 theoretical IBUs. Ahhh well.

I'm buying the voile! Might be a month til I brew again though

Please, slap me next time I don't listen to you the first time Pat!

 

[PistolPatch]

LOL Adam!

As punishment for cleaning up after you your Mum can sew you a bag - no worries!

It could well have been higher than 1035 SG especially if it's down to 1010 already. Some brews seem to just run amok for no reason. Also if the mash temp was too high, the higher bitterness will balance it all so stay excited mate.

Had a look back through this thread but can't find what you actually brewed? Should I add you to the 'Beers Currently Under Trial' list?

Cheers
Pat

 

[Adamt]

Was meant to be an ESB, however now an Ordinary (extra?) Bitter

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Maybe a NPSB (Not Particularly Special Bitter)? h34r:

Again, it'll be better than my first effort.....go BIAB! :super:

PZ.

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Not sure how to dual post so this is a cut and paste from the All In One Brewery thread:

My BIAB Amarillo APA looks to have "finished" at about 1.022 - 1.023 ...its been steady for three days. I had hoped it would have kicked on when I racked it ...

I've included a cut and paste from beersmith of my grains and gravity results to date. Obviously I've got concerns about the high FG. I was aiming for around 1.012

I full mashed for 90mins @ 67C and no-chilled until pitching yeast at 20C.
Primary ferment was 8days at 18C (good krausen and airlock activity for 4-5days)

Beer tastes good out of fermenter (not sweet) so I'm happy to go ahead and keg it. What I'd like is some advice on whether to leave it and see if the gravity drops further, pitch new yeast, or keg and drink?

What are your thoughts? Anyone?

Grain Bill

2.50 kg JW Traditional Ale (5.5 SRM)
2.00 kg JW Export Pils (3.0 SRM)
0.50 kg Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
0.15 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
0.10 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM)

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.022 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.6 %
Est Color: 10.6 SRM

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Not sure how to dual post so this is a cut and paste from the All In One Brewery thread:

My BIAB Amarillo APA looks to have "finished" at about 1.022 - 1.023 ...its been steady for three days. I had hoped it would have kicked on when I racked it ...

I've included a cut and paste from beersmith of my grains and gravity results to date. Obviously I've got concerns about the high FG. I was aiming for around 1.012

I full mashed for 90mins @ 67C and no-chilled until pitching yeast at 20C.
Primary ferment was 8days at 18C (good krausen and airlock activity for 4-5days)

Beer tastes good out of fermenter (not sweet) so I'm happy to go ahead and keg it. What I'd like is some advice on whether to leave it and see if the gravity drops further, pitch new yeast, or keg and drink?

What are your thoughts? Anyone?

Grain Bill

2.50 kg JW Traditional Ale (5.5 SRM)
2.00 kg JW Export Pils (3.0 SRM)
0.50 kg Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
0.15 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
0.10 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM)

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.022 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.6 %
Est Color: 10.6 SRM

BEST THING I'VE EVER DONE ... was to check my refractometer readings against my old hydrometer.

I think I need a lesson in reading refractometers because my FG dropped 12 points when I measured a sample with the hydrometer.

...I rechecked the result using another old hydrometer and got the same 1.010 reading!!!! Wahoo!!!!!

I am now about to keg my first ever BIAB ...and then I will research refractometers and how to use them properly???

God knows what my "true" readings were for starting gravity and gravity into boiler etc ...I thought the instructions said to simply multiply the refrac reading by 4 ...so my refrac reads 5.7 which I multiply to get 22.8 which I thought translated to 1.023 ?? Where did I stuff up?

 

[goatherder]

nice one jimmysuperlative.

refrac readings are considered dodgy once the beer has some alcohol in it. You'll find many brewers don't use them for FG readings and stick to the hydro. The biggest advantage of this method is getting to taste the sample.

Don't sweat your OG readings from the hydro, they might have been OK. Check the refrac against the hydro next you've got some unfermented wort just to make sure.

 

[jimmysuperlative]

nice one jimmysuperlative.

refrac readings are considered dodgy once the beer has some alcohol in it. ...You'll find many brewers don't use them for FG readings and stick to the hydro. The biggest advantage of this method is getting to taste the sample.

Don't sweat your OG readings from the hydro, they might have been OK. Check the refrac against the hydro next you've got some unfermented wort just to make sure.

Something it doesn't clearly state on the packaging and instructions !! ...my excuse, anyway

 

[PistolPatch]

Jimmy, I just posted a reply that mirrors Goatherder's in the All in One thread. Keg and drink the ******* - we want the taste test!

I have further good news on BIAB...

BIAB Works with Lagers - A General Thumbs Up.

Since doing the first BIAB on Ross's Schwartzbier, I've been quite sure that there were no real problems with this brewing method. This morning I carbonated the first lager, the AndrewQLD Pilsner and now I have absolutely no hesitation in recommending the method.

I couldn't taste any brewing errors despite this being my first lager and one major brewing mistake, in my opinion, being made. To make sure, I bottled it at 10am and took it up to Ross's at 4pm.

This style of beer and recipe is very transparent - it shows readily any brewing errors. It is the total opposite of the Schwartzbier (Black Beer). Ross detected some yeast bite which he reckons will dissapear in about a fortnight. This mistake can't be attributed to BIAB.

We also had some of the Kilcenny Clone which no one could taste on Father's Day. This was the 3% beer. Both Ross and Kevin (the local bee-keper) gave this the thumbs up too. The Black Beer has had unaminous thumbs up.

One other thing is that Ross and others are big ale men. Ross has been trying to stop me from becoming a little lager girl! I had 3 of his ales this arvo and they were bloody good. Two out of the three were also totally suited to my palate. I fear that he is going to turn me.

Other BIAB News

In light of what has been brewed to date, I'm going to re-think the first 4 posts. I no longer consider this method as being under trial. As far as I and the others can see, this method is as valid as any other brewing method.

It might take a little time for me to tidy things up here. Being crook for those few weeks has put me way behind in too many areas - still haven't revised the spreadsheet!

In the meantime though, those of you wanting to give BIAB a bash, go for it.

A good day!
Pat

 

[PistolPatch]

Thread Update

Have reduced and changed the content of the first four posts of the thread this morning.

FNQBunyip Is Under Way

For those who missed FNQBunyip's thread on his first BIAB, you can find it here He's put in some great pics and yesterday did his second BIAB. We had a chat yesterday and he seems very happy with the process. Also had a chat about the NASA and burning bags. Bunyip found that the keggle would actually glow red hot using the NASA, hence the burned bag. Guys using ring burners and a heavy based pot shouldn't need a cake rack etc. Will add FNQ's beer to the under trial list.

Escalator Mash

Started the first escalator mash early this morning and I think this is going to cause more problems than the one it's meant to solve i.e. saving the one degree strike calculation.

I threw the grain in at 25 degrees and about five minutes later started to hear little rumblings. Thought it was just vibration at first but after giving it a stir, bubbles were rapidly released. I realised that what was happening was the grain was trapping the very hot water underneath it and therefore probably bringing the small area at the base of the pot to the boil. Probably did this for ten minutes before I caught on. Ended up having to stir the ******* for 20 minutes until it reached mash temperature. Maybe the cake rack would solve this problem but for now I think I better re-write the guide and exclude the escalator mash. A lot of re-writing needs to be done!

Cheers
Pat

P.S. Hopefully we'll hear how Jimmy's beer tasted today.

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

Pat you have hit the nail on the head. I think it was the grain trapping the heat that burnt the bag. I heard the rummberling as I was adding the second bag but coulden't stir till I put the rest in and got the paddle.. to late. That said I wont light my NASA with the bag on the bottom. I did one temp adjustment yesterday and it was just a matter of lifting bag with the sky hook , tieing it up and relighting the burner.. with the NASA it went up 3 in under 2 minutes.

Anyone reading and thinking of trying this method of AG,,,, JUST DO IT....

:beer:

 

[Maxt]

Just popped my AG cherry with a BIAB version of Doc's Chocolate Oat Porter.

Some musings:

*I used my 4 ring gas stove and it went like the clappers. From filling with cold water, to 65 degrees took about 15 mins (30L).
Had a bit of trouble early with mash temp consistency, but just the usual first time experience. (I was using a 80L aluminium kettle). To use sporting parlance, "I will be all the better for the run, next time".

A question which isn't addressed in your guide. Do you mash with the lid on or off?

*There seems to be a lot of weight on the bag when removing. Not sure how the bag would hold up to a double brew with the 8 kg + of grain and liquid saturation. It would be very hard to lift off as well.

*I evaporated a lot more than I expected. Started with 30L, ended up with 15L after removing and draining grain bag.

*I put the wort straight into a fermenter and put it in the bath with a bit of water (which doubled as the kids' bath water later). I did this mainly because I wanted to get everything squared away before the evening. It took 4 hrs to get the wort to pitching temp.

Tastes great out of the hydrometer, so hopefully a successful brew.

Pat, you have turned this humble K&K brewer into a grain convert!

 

[Adamt]

What kind of efficiency did you get?

 

[Maxt]

Not sure with this one, my hydrometer broke a while back, and the one I have as a spare only starts at 1040.

 

[PistolPatch]

[The following long post is brought to you by AndrewQLD pilsner . I BIAB'd his recipe and tasted it 5 days ago. At first, I was impressed as there were no off-flavours but frankly, found the beer pretty boring. After 5 days carbonation in the keg though this has turned into a brilliant beer. :beer: Andrew!]

Just popped my AG cherry with a BIAB version of Doc's Chocolate Oat Porter.

Splendid stuff Maxt!

I've heard rumours that a few people we haven't heard from were going to give BIAB a go but you are the first to post. Thanks mate for your feedback and congratulations on your first AG :beerbang: I hope you found this easier than your partials. As for your queries...

Don't get overly-worried about your mash temp consistency . If you can get within two or three degrees of your aimed mash temp in your first twenty minutes then that's great. Most of the work is done. Getting it exact is one of those fine-tuning things you can challenge yourself to if you want but a few degrees is not going to make a difference detectable to most brewers. Finding a recipe that is in the ball-park of what you like should be a far higher priority than perfecting mash temperatures. After the first 20 minutes, I don't worry too much. I'll let the temp drop by 3 or so degrees before I bother giving a heat burst. My guide has too much detail and therefore emphasis in some areas.

As for mashing with lid on or off, keep it on as this will help preserve heat loss. Only remove the lid when you're agitating the mash and checking the temperature.

I wouldn't like to be lifting a double batch BIAB either! Good point Max. I have a little step-ladder which I forgot to use on my last brew. It's bloody heavy lifting and impossible to twirl when the top of your kettle is not waist high. I actually ended up getting the ladder out. Apart from a pulley system, I can't think of an easy way to double-batch BIAB. Oh well.

Evaporation Rates. In the guide I suggest 38 litres to start. This should get you in the ball park. 30 litres would definitely leave you short but topping up with tap water is an easy way to get around this until you get your rates rate. I'm still having trouble with evaporation rates. My 3 ring burner seems to be consistently inconsistent! (I think it's when the gas bottle gets down to the last third???)

(By the way, when you said that you ended up with 15 litres after removing and draining the bag, I'm assuming that you removed the bag before the boil i.e. straight after the mash. Let me know if you didn't.)

Taking 4 hours to get to pitching temp is not a worry. When you're starting out, you learn to make do with what you have. The sooner you pitch then the less risk for sure. Sometimes, you can work your lack of equipment to your advantage. In your case for example, I'd pitch my ale yeast at 30-33 degrees. Yeast love that warm temperature to multiply in. Two or three hours later it will be at your fermenting temperature. Top stuff!

Great questions from you Max and once again congrats on your first AG.

Cheers mate,
Pat

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Maybe this should ahve gone in the All In One thread, but I'm very lazy and this one is on the Latest Posts list :lol:

Did my first AG batch with the new pot-in-pot setup today:

1850g Joe White Munich,
150g Joe White Munich (home roasted to a nice caramel colour inside and dark brown outside),
Mash-hopped 10g Saaz just for the hell of it,
15G Fuggles for 60 mins,
8g Fuggles for 45 mins,
13g Bramling Cross for 30 mins,
8g EK Goldings for 15 mins,
45g Cane Sugar added at 15 mins to go,
Pitching US-56 dry yeast once cooled and in the fermenter.

Obviously the is a "recovery version" of my weak BIAB attempt.

Kept the mash temp over 63 the whole time, but due to outside interferences it got up to 69 at times, but mostly around 66...pretty much where I wanted it...hoping it'll be good :huh:

This was supposed to be an 11.5 Litre batch, but as it'll need topping up, I'll probably keep it down to 10 Litres in the frementer...only need 9L for the keg, so why the hell not? :chug:

PZ.

*edit* - this time it was very "thin" mash...around 4L water to each 1Kg grain......(the main problem last time was deemed to be a complete reverse of this (too thick))

 

[PistolPatch]

Glad to hear it went well Fingerlickin. I'm not sure where your post should go either. There's no bag but you used gas. All of us would find your method of great interest though. You did a bloody nice job on the equipment too. (See Jimmy's pics in All In One Brewery thread). Did the SS mesh work OK?

As for mash thickness, I would have mashed with 7-8 litres per kilo. This would give you a final volume that is about right.

Top effort mate and will look forward to hearing how it tastes. Should be perfect this time.

Good on ya,
Pat

 

[Maxt]

No Pat I didn't leave the bag in for the boil .

If anything the boil may have been too vigorous. I boiled for 90 mins and really saw a huge evaporation from then on.

I was going to go no-chill, but I only had a single batch, and it went straight into the fermenter. I was looking for a cool place to put it out of the way so I stuck it in the bath. As it was sitting there I thought, "bugger it, I might as well chill".

Happy to say it is now bubbling away. :beerbang: