A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[Screwtop]

Oooooooooooooooh! Pretty colours! I've added a priming calculator and now my programming seems to be flowing a bit better which means I could probably reduce the code in the recipe sheet by a half, but as they say in the classics; stiff ****!

I should really stop doing this and do some actual work :S

Hows about prettying it up in an Access App? Great for presentation, you VB guys could write any code required for use behind the forms. You have the spreadsheets already to use as your tables.

 

[Coodgee]

The only problem with MS access is that not many people own it. It only comes with Office professional. Probably not too many brewers forked out for the pro version. but I might be wrong.

 

[Adamt]

I think it'd be much easier to keep it in Excel until we can get around to writing a standalone program.

 

[Zizzle]

I can help with a standalone app.

I would recommend Python. Mozilla XUL is probably also a candidate. Java would be the fallback.

Open source stuff means low barrier to entry for new contributors, it's only a download away, and cross platform (OSX and Linux are my main platforms, but the unwashed masses run 'doze).

I've had success with cross platform GUIs in python before. Tkinter comes with the Windoze python dist, and maybe OSX too.

 

[PistolPatch]

Very, very nice Adam!

Phrak had to work a double-shift but is going to check out your latest bit of work asap. From what I can see, I think he'll be pretty happy.

Did you or Coodgee come up with an answer to the IBUs discrepancy? I'm thinking it's probably best to have it approximating what you get in Beersmith or Promash. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Top work Adam and many thanks for neglecting your other duties,

Cheers
Pat

P.S. Wish I could understand this computer talk. When you said earlier, "I'm having to employ a little bit of Visual Basic to get the reverse calculations done on the hop mass, percentages and etc. and I'll look at the timing stuff a bit later on!" I thought this meant that you'd had too many beers at the pub and were slowly trying to find your way home but could hardly see.

 

[Phrak]

Hey guys, my deepest apologies, but I'm going to have to make this a quick visit. Too much to do before father's day tomorrow!

Adam, Thanks for the updates! Looks great! Question for you though - I still am trying to figure out where you're getting some of your 'constants' for the calculations from.
For example, on the Carbonation page in cell B12, you've got "0.92+1.48" to calculate the CO2 volumes... I can guess that the 0.92 is his 'Saturated CO2' number, but what's the '1.48'? Likewise for the 'Weight to be used' calc below it. Also the constants for the Saturated CO2 calc?

I've attached my latest copy (based on the changes to Adam's last version).

Here's the change log:

Added:
* Pick-list for natural carbonation method.
* Cell for CO2 Pressure if 'Forced'
* Carb volumes sheet, using BJCP Styles
* Uniform page and cell formatting:
*** White cells do (or should) not need to be touched. i.e. They're auto-calcs or info only.
*** Pink cells REQUIRE information.
*** Yellow cells OPTIONAL infromation.
*** Grey cells are headings or titles.
* Added/removed cell borders and stuff to make print versions look nicer.

To Do:
* Make Boil vol calc based on brew vol
* make Expected OG Calc based on grain yeild
* Ferment. Sched. Day/date calcs cleanup - Would like some feedback here on how to style this better.
* Packaging/Carbonation, "Apparent Attenuation %" - Adam, What's this for mate?
* Saturated CO2 volumes - Audit formula, Adam?
* CO2 Volumes Required for style - Pick from list based on "CarbStyles" Sheet.
* Weight to be used (g) - Based on Dex/Malt picklist + Audit formula. I get a different figure using beersmith.
* CO2 Pressure if 'Forced' calculations


Please feel free to reply here or PM me if you know there's calcs that aren't working or have any suggestions for the sheet.
The only concern I've got, is that I want this spreadsheet to stay on-topic for the AG BIAB thread, I don't really want it (this version, at least) to turn into yet another piece of brewing software. Maybe the horse has already bolted (& I know I kinda opened the gate for it with some of my additions), but maybe we might have to try and reign the 'features' it in a bit.

Anyway, I have to fly. Keep up the great work everyone! :super:
Tim.

View attachment BIAB_Checklist_v5.xls

 

[Adamt]

Won't have much time to do anything today, however I have fixed the natural carbonation equations; the code imploded when you changed the cells around on the carb sheet

The "Apparent Attenuation" was described where I found the priming calculation. It seems it is the yield, or amount of the priming sugar/malt that carbonates; supposedly ~100% for sugars, ~75% for dry malt. If I get around to it, I'll automate it to change value depending on the priming sugar/malt chosen.

The different carbonation figure may be due to that "Apparent Attenuation" figure not being completely accurate. Quite possibly its closer to 90-95% which gets it much closer to Beersmith - not sure how Beersmith calculates carbonation.

I'll possibly change the IBU code tomorrow at work to Rager's hop calculations. Beersmith uses Rager's formulae by default, however after doing a few manual calculations it seems the IBU values I've calculated are still not as high as Beersmith, however are "closer" than the currently implemented method.

Rager's Formula is based completely on theory, so you'd expect it to give higher values than Tinseth's completely empirical formula. Tinseth hop values on Beersmith seem to be higher than my Tinseth values too, maybe Beersmith is just fudging the values higher? lol.

I'll upload the changes tomorrow night!

-Adam

 

[PistolPatch]

Thread Update

Ocassionally I will post a Thread Update to inform others when any of the first four posts have been edited. This morning I have re-written the first 4 posts to some degree. You'll see that Post #4 has turned into a summary of the most recent developments.

Those reading the thread, please take special note of my final comments under, 'Credits,' in Post #1. Whilst they would never expect it, taking a minute to post or PM a message of appreciation to the guys who are working so hard on the spreadsheet can make a huge difference. No feedback can become frustrating while receiving feedback inspires further creativity and contribution.

Looks like BIAB has made an impact at Coopers already. Post #1 of this thread shows the original Coopers homebrewing billboard. Post #13 shows the changes they have been forced to make since. (My goodness - I have to drink with these loonys all day today!)

Happy Father's Day to POhrak and the other Dads!

Cheers
Pat

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

As requested by Pat, this post will be mirrored in both appropriate threads

My BIAB Boddingtons clone copped the taste test this arvo...

Yep, efficiency was obviously down (due the using a small bag), but all seems good.

I'm very happy with the method and its results...next one with a correctly sized bag should make a great beer!

Thanks to all those involved...my first AG may be a light one, but still quite drinkable.

Recipe seems good and not at fault when it comes to the watery beer...I blame the small bag.........don't be put off by my results people...this method will make good beer :super:

PZ.

 

[Phrak]

Hey guys, here's my latest update, based on the last version.

Here's the change log:

Added:
* Refined Pick-list for natural carbonation methods.
* Pick-list for Carbonation Calcs by style - Pick from our BJCP style list.
* Carbonation weight to be used (g) - Based on Dex/Malt picklist
* Refined a few cell borders & Print Areas for clarity.
* Removed Adam's VBScript calcs from the Priming sheet. Calcs now done in the cells.
* Refined "Apparent Attenuation" to be "Priming Method Attenuation", and auto-calcd.
* Added Coodgee's Efficiency Difference calcs back in.

To Do:
* Make Boil vol calc based on brew vol minus expected losses.
* Include expected losses cells.
* Make Expected OG Calc based on grain yeild.
* Ferment. Sched. Day/date calcs cleanup - Would like some feedback here on how to style this better.
* CO2 Pressure if 'Forced' calculations.
* Ability to Scale grainbill to different batch sizes.
* Finalise the IBU calc method once and for all.
* Include reverse IBU calcs (Enter IBU you want and the AA% of your hops to get the weight needed).


Please feel free to reply here or PM me if you know there's calcs that aren't working or have any suggestions for the sheet.

As I said before, let's try and keep this spreadsheet on-topic for the AG BIAB thread. We're doing really well so far! :super: :super:

Oh, and also - I'm off on holidays for the next two weeks (hooray!) so please don't be offended if I seem to be ignoring you.

Anyway, I'm being summonsed to bed now. Have a great couple of weeks everyone!

Cheers,
Tim.

View attachment BIAB_Checklist_v6.xls

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

I'll be useing this checklist this week.
Thanks Phrak,Adam & Coodgee for all the work that you guys have put in.. We here at AHB are very lucky.
Cheers :beer:

 

[PistolPatch]

I've been bowled over by the flu so haven't had a chance to have a good look over Adam and Phrak's latest handiwork. Sorry guys. Will do so asap. (Have a great holiday Phrak :beer: )

FNQ and Adam are having a bash at the bag this weekend so good luck guys :beer: If you have any worries during the process, give me a ring.

Phrak's shown me how to link directly to a post so if you have a BIAB taste test, just post it here and I'll get James to link it in the All In One thread so there'll be no need to post it twice.

Finger and Zizzle have both tasted their beers and seem very happy with the result even though both had to brew with very limited equipment. Good on you guys.

I'll post update the beginning of this thread and post my latest taste test when I'm feeling like drinking again

Will also have a crack at putting the black beer into the new checklist format asap.

Cheers
Pat

 

[PistolPatch]

Phrak and Adam - You've Blown Me Away!

As you know, Ive been crook (still am) and this arvo has been the first time Ive felt up to having a detailed look at the spreadsheet.

Im actually in shock. The amount of work that you guys have put into this has truly blown me away. As FNQBunyip said, AHB is bloody lucky to have you here. God knows how many hours youve put in. I know you both pulled a few all-nighters on this early in the piece but how many more have you done?

Ive jotted a few minor suggestions/corrections below and even this minor stuff took considerable time so I cant comprehend what you've achieved especially just by communicating through this thread. I think I have an idea on how to improve this side of things for you (later.)

Anyway, until Phrak gets back, has anyone else got any more suggestions/improvements? Adam, can you fix/implement any of the following without taking up too much more of your time?

SPREADSHEET SUGGESTIONS/IMPROVEMENTS

Upon Opening

Macros are disabled because the security level is set to High and a digitally signed Trusted Certificate is not attached.

Solution: Go, Tools-Options-Security-Macro Security and then set it to Medium.

Overview and Recipe SheetCorrections

1. Cell F19 needs formula changed to =SUM(F11:F18)
2. Cell I19 needs formula changed to =SUM(I11:I19)
3. Weve lost the info contained in Columns I & J 1-14 of original spreadsheet. This info is fairly important so we need to whack it back in somehow. Ill have a think on this.
4. Preliminary Notes, Errors/Adjustments. and Notes for Next Time, also lost. Once again. Ill have a think on this.

Overview and Recipe SheetSuggestions

5. Now that you guys have automated so many of the time fields, I think my idea of having A1 (Planned Day) A4 (Planned Start) and B 4 (Planned End) is no longer necessary - it just complicates things. If we get rid of these, a whole lot of other stuff will be made easier as well. We really only need 2 fields - Date and Time (the date the brew was cooked and the time started).

Cooking Sheet - Suggestions

To make it more visually appealing/simple

6. Get rid of Rows 1-11. (Will have to hide Cells B4 and B5)
7. Get rid of quotation boxes. I reckon people should be able to read the BIAB .pdf for instructions on how to use these columns.
8. Clean up cells like E15 where a line can be seen i.e. E15 has not been merged with F15. This problem occurs when rows are inserted. This is very picky, I know, but why doesnt Excel copy the row exactly? Can this be fixed?

Other

9. Assuming suggestion 4 above is accepted then automate Cells B13-18.
10. Get rid of Row 95 (probably is linked to formulas though so maybe just hide it?)
11. Note Details, needs to be moved up and the cells merged so people can type in directly.
12. Maybe have a button on the Overview & Recipe Sheet that people can click to print the Cooking Sheet? That would be pretty cool! This and a Summary Sheet are probably the only two important sheets to be able to print.

The Last 3 Sheets

My goodness! How much work has gone into these? SERIOUSLY, this is a massive amount of work. I cant possibly suggest anything at the moment as it will take me a few days just to see what youve done and how youve done it. From what I can see briefly, its actually probably way beyond my level of expertise/knowledge anyway.

Truly amazed,
Pat

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Phrak and Adam - You've Blown Me Away!

Here too ...you Blokes are amazing! Great stuff!!! :super: :beerbang:

 

[PistolPatch]

Have just posted a warning at the top of Post #3 as FNQ was using a NASA burner to BIAB and ended up with a hole burned in his bag. Agh! So, use something like a cake stand to keep the bag off the bottom of the kettle. FNQ has now had to spend the day drinking stout by his pool!

Jimmysuperlative had a better run at it. See here He'll post a few more details and a taste test down the track. Donya Jimmy!

Have had a chat to Adamt (his birthday's tomorrow :beer: ) and I'll spend some time on the spreadsheet in the next few weeks just on the layout - with his guidance so I don't stuff anything up!

Kilcenny Clone Taste Test

I first wrote a review on this here I've been delayed posting more on this until now due to the flu.

This beer is only 3% yet has twenty times the flavour of ordinary commercial full-strength brews. You can't taste those beers at all if taken after this Kilcenny. (Then again, you can't taste the Kilcenny after an APA as we discovered on Father's Day!)

I do like this beer a lot and am going to move it into the, 'Successful BIAB Beer,' category. Because it is such a quick brewer and is not too bitter, I think I'll use it for neighbours etc who are used to drinking commercial lagers - it has a lot of flavour but not too much for these guys. For me, it's great due to the 3% bit. Certainly a great step up from the light beer I usually drink after working all day in the heat.

I have no expertise in describing the taste of beers so I'll see if I can post a bottle or two out to some of the guys that can do this. I'll also get some non-brewers to have a taste and see what they think. Once done, I'll edit this post accordingly.

Cheers
Pat

 

[Adamt]

There it is! I'm an all-grain brewer! Brewed a kind of English Pale Ale.

Here's a rundown of the day, and the major problems I encountered!

-Fired up kettle to heat to strike temperature, PROBLEM: It was windy as hell, firing up the nasa isn't easy in the wind, even with the pot on top

-Flame off, put bag on, fitted my awesome 99c supermarket calico bag, fitted my camping mat insulation, added grain and stirred. PROBLEM: The water did not move freely around between the inside of the bag and the outside (see picture). Either the bag needed to stretch out to line the pot more, or a looser mesh bag is required! This lead to water on the outside of the bag being 72C, and the actual mash hovering between 64-67 after addition of boiling water to adjust.



-PROBLEM: We had one of those 5L DAB kegs to drink, we opened it at this point :S Impaired judgement starts here.

-Fired up the burner again after about 30 mins to reheat. PROBLEM: Do not leave camping mats wrapped around a pot with the burner on! Either by coincidence or whatever, the mat fell down, my mate was silly enough to try and pull it up and ended up with blue camping mat burnt into his thumb, hilarious! (Forgot to get a picture before he got it all off, I was laughing too hard)

-After mash, the bag was lifted. PROBLEM: Stuck sparge. No more than a few drips left the bottom of the bag. Not good! Placed the bag in another pot to "drain". Squeezing did bugger all :/ So, I sanitized a jug to use as a scoop, a bucket and a colander. Scooped wet grain from bag, dumped in colander, liquid! SWEET LIQUID! That only took a good 15 minutes and by then the concrete patio was stained with wet spent grain. The grain bag went in the bin!

-Had about 30 litres in the pot during the mash, after the crappy-bag drama there was about 26L in the pot.

-Boil went fine, 15 minutes to get a boil. Hop additions went fine, at the hour, flame off, hops out, lid on, no chill! About 20L left in the pot, will check for sure when i rack.


CONCERNS:

-We used almost a whole pack of long matches because of the freeking wind.

-How can I tell if I've extracted tannins from the grain? I pushed the grain down slightly in the colander to extract more liquor. Checked it this morning, smells sweet like wort (wow, good observation here).

-Will be checking SG today but I'd think my efficiency is down, though I ended up with less wort than I thought I'd get.



My mate had an idea for a grain bag.... A burley sack! Sorry Pat, I really dont like the thought of sewing curtain material

Will post back with tasting in a few weeks!

 

[PistolPatch]

What a crack up Adam!

Oh I do love it when people post honestly! Not only a good laugh but a good education as well.

Can I offer some suggestions - lol?

Good on you for testing out the calico bag idea. When you said you were going to use that I should have thought that it wouldn't be big enough - sorry mate. You need something large enough that lines your kettle completely. Anything else is gong to cause you a lot of problems. So let's forget the pillow slip idea as well.

Sorry Pat, I really dont like the thought of sewing curtain material

Mate there must be one girl you know who can sew. If not get friendly with their mothers. Alternatively, Spotlight will make the bag for you given two weeks or take it to a tailor who would do it while you wait. The Swiss Voile material works beautifully so I'd definitely get a proper bag sewn up. The last thing you want is hassles on your first AG though it sounds as though you had a great time anyway!!!

fitted my camping mat insulation

Forget the insulation. It is so unimportant. With the lid on my kettle, I get bugger all temperature drop. Surprisingly it's about the same as I got in my esky - weird, eh? The first 20 minutes is where most conversion takes place. Insulation at this stage is just as likely to work against you as for you. So, no insulation and just whack the flame on once or twice if the temp falls to 2 degrees less than your desired temp.

I'm doing the escalator mash this weekend and I can't see any reason why it won't work. This will elliminate the need for strike calculations though on full volume brewing you're only talking about a 1 to 1.5 degree difference between strike and mash temp anyway.

How can I tell if I've extracted tannins from the grain?

You won't have - end of story. So don't worry about that mate.

I think you may end up with a low efficiency due to the tight calico bag though. Even if it does end up being a low alcohol beer, it will still taste great.

..........

I wrote the above four hours ago and then Zizzle dropped in with his gorgeous girlfriend before I could finish the post. They have only just left and I'm now too depressed to finish the post - she has no older sisters!

Life, and brewing your first AG, can sometimes be just too cruel.



Pat

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

They have only just left and I'm now too depressed to finish the post - she has no older sisters!

GOLD!!!! :lol:

 

[Adamt]

*sigh* my "mate" was supposed to bring me his hydrometer so I could check the SG, but anyway, got some un-yeasted wort waiting for the hydrometer tomorrow.

Doesnt really smell that light on for sugars, but I've only got 19L

Just got home after pitching 6 hours ago, krausen ho, already!

As good old Big Kev would say, "IM EXCITED!"

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

The calico may noty have worked out the first time, like a new tea towel wont dry the dishes till its been washed a couple of times. Just a thought..

You can't go past the Swiss Vollie though.. Come on Adam there must be someone around that can sew up a bag for you.. My 11 yo daughter did mine.. (After a bit of bargaining )..

another slight set back this weekend.. so next week....

will have to go the the big smoke (Cairns) this week as I am now out of gas... (CO2)

Adam: what pot have you got ? did you have to raise it above the nasa stand to get a good burn? .. The wind dose play havoc with them...

:beer: