A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[dan_pilbara]

Looking at doing my first BIAB as my grain bill is starting to get too big for my partial set up. The equipment i have is a 40L and 10L urn. Questions are can i put a weldless thermometer through the side of he big urn or will this pierce the bag? Where is the jury on using a bucket and sparging? I have a small roll of SS mesh could i use this to make the basket or will the mesh size be too large?

Thanks Dan

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Looking at doing my first BIAB as my grain bill is starting to get too big for my partial set up. The equipment i have is a 40L and 10L urn. Questions are can i put a weldless thermometer through the side of he big urn or will this pierce the bag? Where is the jury on using a bucket and sparging? I have a small roll of SS mesh could i use this to make the basket or will the mesh size be too large?

Thanks Dan

I've been struggling for a while with how to do the thermometer thing as you suggest and haven't come up a solution. I expect the probe would foul the bag and possibly poke a hole in it, while giving you the temperature at the probe, which may not be the balance of the mash. For now, I think the manual probe held in the mash as you stir it with your spoon/paddle/potato-masher is the go.

I reckon that for your first brew, keep it simple and don't bother sparging. You won't notice the difference in efficiencies and will have a more enjoyable day.

In my thinking about mesh baskets, they would be in addition to the Swiss Voille to provide structural integrity for very big batches - not instead of it. The current common understanding is that you want to keep as many solids out of your boil as possible (theoretically right down to flour) and a fine mesh as provided by the curtain material does this reasonably well (with the exception of the flour, but now I'm being too pedantic).

HTH...

 

[PistolPatch]

Just to address some of the prior comments on taste tests, comps, side by sides and no-chill...

The First Side by Side Taste Test

Ross mentioned that everyone was pretty well-oiled on the first side by side test. Ross could be forgiven for thinking this as he arrived a t the swap very early to help out and therefore got a head-start on everyone else. In fact though, most of the people that did that test, did it on a clean palate - at least 5 and the rest certainly were not well-oiled. We sort of didn't want anyone that had had too many doing the test. In other words, that test was very valid.

Future Side by Sides

I'm up for doing more side by sides on the condition that someone organises transport to and from my place It's more fun if you can have abeer whilst you brew. The side by side I did with hughman cost me a fortune - well over two hundred dollars. That's a long story and we spent so long crushing grain that we by the time we started brewing, our skills had dropped somewhat. And then, hughman drank all his beer so we couldn't even compare them - lol!!! The one with Doogiechap went really well except for one major flaw that we didn't realise until the end. The water he used was filtered whereas mine wasn't. Anyway, we do boith have some of that kolsch left which we can have a comparison taste of but with the water stuff-up we won't be able to draw any conclusions.

Suffice to say that doing a side by side involves a fair bit from the bloke doing the travelling but if someone can fix that side of things for me then I'll always be prepared to load my gear up.

Good idea Kook on the sending the results off to West Coast or the likes for some triangular tasting. (Hope the new house is going well and hopefully we can do a brew together once you get settled. I reckon hughman should drive me - lol!)

The other alternative for anyone over here to do a side by side is to come to my place where I have access to both traditional and BIAB equip. We could do a brew on each set of equip.

Competitions

OK, I'll whack a few beers in. I'm going to ask Neville from Gryphon Brewing to help me out here as I have no idea on what beers of mine will be to style and how to enter them. He has lots of experience in that area and has done well in comps before. He also has extensive brewing education and experience so this will certainly be of invaluable assistance to me. Hope you can help me out Neville :unsure:

No Chilling

I better expand on my comment on no chilling made last week. When I said it sounds like hard work or whatever, what I meant was that if your aim is to get the beer fermenting asap and you can afford a chiller then this is less work than racking to a cube and then pitching later on. Of course, there are so many variations on no-chill and not all of them involve the cube step. If not, then the work wouldn't be too much. However, I don't know much about the no-chill, no-cube method :blink: so feel free to correct me on this.

And don't worry Fents, it's only poor buggers like me that have nowhere for a skyhook that have to lift the bag out manually. Mind you it takes less than a minute so it's no big deal. There's no way I'd do a double-batch that way though unless I was Grant Kenny!

Have just sent those beers to you Ned and I also have sent Batz a few including that elusive altbier. Looking forward to seeing whether Batz thinks it's right or not.

Spot ya,
Pat

 

[wrightyman]

Looking to get back into AG after 3yrs,This sound like a easy way to begin.Have only read a few postings,Have a few questons if anyone can help.What size bag?Are they easy available.Do you have to sparge?

Wrightyman

 

[Fents]

Love ya work PP, Grant Kenny got nothing on you mate.

Yo Pat, everytime you sign a post (Spot ya, Pat) i spin out...Your not from NZ are you?

Theres a double meaning to Spot Ya i've known for a long time and everytime you post it i have a good chuckle imagining you firing up the stove and hot knifes

Next time the spots are on your PP!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spots

 

[Darren]

PP, I am a bit disappointed that you did not comment on the idea of not using a bag and boiling the whole damn lot. Anyone want to comment on the idea?

cheers

Darren

 

[PistolPatch]

Sorry Darren - I'm slipping . I'm actually running behind on my replies to this thread as a lot of guys have written some excellent stuff in the last few days I reckon.

Though your idea would save pulling the bag out until the kettle is drained which could be an advantage, wouldn't it result in huge astringency problems? From what I understand as soon as you go over 78 degrees you start to extract tannins. If so, this unfortunately stuffs this idea. Oh well!!!

Have really enjoyed reading the posts above. So many great points have been made.

Without looking back through the posts, I think one point that should be emphasised is one that Kingy made. Kingy, from now on I am calling you King Bling!!!

Kingy, you mentioned that, psychologically, your beers will taste better if you brew traditionally. As Thirsty pointed oput, this is probably far truer than you realise now, But, you have doubts and there is nothing that will remove those at this stage. This can be a good thing though...

The first good thing is that you are excited about spending more money on brewing and learning more. You can't beat that. The trick is how to go about it sensibly.

I was chatting to Ned today and he is using the same vessel for HLT, mash tun and kettle, This is the sensible way to go if you are able. Why? Because as Eric says if traditional brewing makes no diffrence, you'll be able to do 3 BIAB brews simultaneously in those vessels without much extra expense - a few burners.

Unless you already have an esky Kingy, you should really consider using a pot as your mash tun. You live in a cold climate most of the year and if you use an esky, your mash temp will drop by at least 3 degrees in a 90 minute mash. The only two ways to correct this are by adding more hot water (which is bloody difficult to get right) or by using an immersion heater. If you us e apot however, you can just add a little more heat with your burner - simple.

I think I read that you have only brewed lagers so far. These to me and many others can be a little dissapointing. Surely you can find somehwere in your house that stays at around 15 degrees at least? If so, do Tony's kolsch or the all amarillo ale. These are lovely beers.

Tony's kolsch beats any lager I have tasted to date and would make a suitable lager 'clone.' My palate likes really well-balance not overly-bitter beers which are harder to brew than 'over the top' beers.

If you have to keep going with lagers for now then raise your mash temp by two degrees on your next one and see how you go.

And, King Bling , I think BIAB still has a lot of bling to be added to it yet. So much so that I'm going to start a new thread on BIAB Bling Ideas. Once written. Here it is!

Looking forward to a beer in the Blue Mountains with your Kingy whether it be traditional or BIAB.

Spot ya,
Pat

P.S. Fents, I'd forgotten about your post!!! Now WTF is the double meaning to Spot Ya. You have me really worried! I thought it just meant spot ya later or spot ya later on (ron). See you learn something new here every day!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Pat and other BIAB converts,

I am wondering if you actually need to remove the grain at all?

Anyone tried boiling all the mash and fermenting?

Might end up a brilliantly clear, full bodied beer.
Worth a try if anyone is game.
cheers

Darren

Sorry Darren, I would have commented but haven't read this thread for a day or so.

I think that would make it a bit like a wash from whiskey production?? Not sure but dont they boil the grain and all?

And I belive that some of the african "ancient" style beers involved boiling and also fermenting with the grain. Then just drinkning the whole lot straight from the fermentor through a reed and a wad of scruched up plant fibers as a filter.

So it would certainly make beer. Dont know if the boil would extract tannins from the grain... I know that it doesn't particularly when you do a decoction, but I think the ph might change enough throughout a full length boil so that it could be a problem.. or does the ph go the other way during the boil, I forget. I also suspect that there would be starch haze... the last of the starch in the grain bashed into solubility by a lengthy boil, but no enzymes to convert it.

And you'd have to separate your wort from grain eventually, unless you want to ferment with the grain as well, so I suspect that before the boil is an easier place to do it than post boil. Although conducting something akin to a re-circ / lauter step would certainly get rid of any hop/break/trub from your wort.

What the hell... I just did a BIAB, no-boil, partially no-chill nano batch of Berliner weiss that I deliberately infected with lacto bugs..... If I can make something that way off the charts... then I can try a nano batch with the grain still in. I'll do it for the team !!

Care to suggest a style?

Thirsty

 

[PistolPatch]

Oh Thirsty, someone has to do it! I reckon a normal style - a pale ale or something?

Are you seriously prepared top have a crack Thirsty? I would have thought that it would all just be wrong?

Crikey! If it is a possibility this will really have me scratching my head though as yet, I'm not too certain of the advantages :unsure:

Spot!

P.S. And excuse all my melling listakes in my last post. I have a new keyboard that I'm not used to as yet.

 

[Darren]

Thirsty, Pat,

All the tannins and unconverted starch may just make this wort crystal clear

Biggest problem I can see is scorching of the grain.

Pat, the advantage is - You dont need a bag!

Pale ale would be a good style to test.

cheers

Darren

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thirsty, Pat,

All the tannins and unconverted starch may just make this wort crystal clear

Biggest problem I can see is scorching of the grain.

Pat, the advantage is - You dont need a bag!

Pale ale would be a good style to test.

cheers

Darren

Dunno about tannins and unconverted starch making anything crystal clear.... and even if it is it may well taste horrible.

Might not need a bag... but how am I going to separate the grains out post boil?? I shall probably use a colander lined with a filter cloth... for which I will just use my "bag" I suppose a colander and a bit of cheesecloth is easier than a bag... but not a lot. I dont see it as a huge advantage... marginal at best.

But... rather than conject, I shall give it a go. Not gonna get scientific and do controls, calibration and all that guff, But I will split the wort into two halves... same mash. half boiled with half the grain, half normally (BIAB) lautered. Then I will assemble a tasting panel and we will do some triangles.

Fair ?? Not gonna happen in the next week or so though, I've brewed twice this week already and have neither the motivation nor the fermentors to brew again very soon.

Thirsty

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

... I've brewed twice this week already and have neither the motivation nor the fermentors to brew again very soon.

And *that* is what's wrong with young people today...

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Transferring an argument to the thread I think it belongs in...

The main thing put forward to this is trying to tell people BIAB is the easiest and best way to start your first brew because you only need a kettle and a bag instead of a 3 vessel system as if there is nowhere in between the two.

Say you start with a kettle then the choice is yours should you get a bag made up or a mashtun because either one is all you need.
For using a mash tun you can heat your liquor in your kettle and hold it in your fermentor or any old bucket while your draining the wort into the kettle etc, everyones clearly got a fermentor ready.

So given this it is simply a choice between hey should I sew up a bag or build a mashtun. The arguement is the bag is cheaper and easier but infact you can make a mashtun for pretty much next to nothing. I just scored two 20L mayo buckets from a hotel for nothing and drilled holes in the bottom of one and sat it inside and put a couple dollar tap on the bottom one. So all it costs was a couple dollars.

I think it should be fairly clear which method would be the better and easier of the two.

I'am not trying to say here BIAB is no good at all I'am simply trying say building a mashtun doesn't need to be anymore costly or harder and that you don't need anymore equipment than that.
A mayo bucket with holes drill everywhere could possibly make a good basket for this BIAB idea but using it as a mashtun would be the direction I would advise.

Jayse. I have only one issue with what you have said above.... this

"I think it should be fairly clear which method would be the better and easier of the two."

You are right, it is clear to me, the bag would be the easier and better of the two.

My understanding is that bucket in bucket lauter tuns are not particularly good, they work, but they are far from the best lauter tun option you could choose. I certainly dont know this for sure having never used one, but there aren't very many brewers who dont upgrade from the bucket in a bucket fairly quickly upon getting the chance. Or are you planning to swap to using the buckets you scored and converted into a mash tun, as your primary wort separation method?

Whereas I beleive the bags work very effectively and wont require upgrading unless you want to go bigger, or they wear out.

However, I dont think that's what you meant. I suspect you meant that its fairly clear that the buckets would be easier and better than the bag......

Easier - well, I say that thats debatable. The bag is certainly easier to use than a mash tun. To build, dunno, could go either way I reckon - its certainly easier to get your wife to sew your bag, than to have to personally drill hundreds of holes in a bucket - but that might be cheating I suppose. As for cheap.... couple of bucks for a tap, couple of bucks for some cloth... I'd call it a tie.

Better - this is where I really have the issue. Why?? Why is the bucket better? You say it is as though its self evident, but its not. You haven't provided so much as one single reason why. WHY ????


MAH - I dont think anyone is painting a mashtun as a disadvantage. Mash tuns are obviously great bits of gear that work fantastically well. If you have one already.

I agree that an eski/hose braid MT isn't all that hard or expensive to build... its just that i think it is harder and more expensive than the bag. And then if you decide that you want to move on from the bag to an MT... you have really only wasted a few bucks on material, and you can always re-sew it into hop socks, wort strainers etc etc if you want to be truly stingy

As you said, no one is saying that BIAB will make better beer than a trad system. I think we all started out with the expectation that it would actually be at least a little inferior as a method, a compromise between space, money, time, effort - and a measure of quality.

But as more and more BIAB beer has been produced; it just doesn't seem to be working out that way. The beers pretty much seem to be on a par with the ones produced by all the other methods... there are still a couple of question marks about very long term stability... but thats about the only issue I can think of that might still be outstanding on the quality front. I might be wrong, but thats my understanding of the situation.

So, from my perspective

Mash tun based systems can be reasonably cheap and easy to make, not all that hard to learn and use; and are a great system for producing excellent beer..... But

BIAB based systems are even cheaper and easier to make, even easier to learn and use; and are a great system for producing excellent beer.

So to me, I think that I would be doing a prospective new brewer a disservice by not pointing out to them, that this was an option they should consider.

Actually, I dont really even recall (I may just be stupid though) a time when someone has in any significant way tried to dissuade a new brewer from going with a trad system. I've seen plenty of "what gear do I need to go AG" questions answered with a "have you considered starting with BIAB" and pointing out the advantages. But thats no more mash tun bashing; than suggesting a batch & braid system would be having a crack at sparge ring and false bottom rigs...

Basically I cant see what is wrong with people offering genuine advice or opinion on different methods for brewing... no matter which one. If you think your method is better, advise them to try yours instead "its better because....."

Thirsty

 

[PistolPatch]

Oh Thirsty! I'm so happy I started the BIAB Bling thread

Thanks for your sensible and courageous posts there mate. Your fingers must be worn out!

Here's my response as to some reasons why people should think twice before they advise that a mash tun system is easier, just as cheap or better than BIAB.

1. All of Thirsty's Reasons above and the many others that have been written about elsewhere in this thread or the forum.
2. Building a Mash Tun is not as easy as people make out for many novice brewers unless they have someone to help them along. Understanding the principles of a mash tun can be a very confusing, contradictory subject to learn about. It is often expensive as well. As Thirsty said, not many people stay thrilled with the bucket in bucket system and so you need an esky, a tap mechanism and a manifold. THe manifold is one area that gets very confusing due to the high amount of conflicting advice.
3. Mash Tun Temperature: To correct the temp in a mash tun system requires either very expensive pumping and heating mechanisms, an immersion element or cheapest of all, adding hotter water which can be a tricky thing to judge. With BIAB, you just add some flame for a minute or so and therefore can easily keep things accurate at zero expense.
4. Tiers or Levels: This is a major factor that no proponent of mash tuns has mentioned in the bling thread. It is VERY major. Jayse's idea of just having a 2 vessel system and using the fermenter to fill the gaps, ignores just how big those gaps are. How do you transfer the hot water from your kettle into the HLT? How do you transfer the mash from HLT to fermenter? How do you transfer wort from fermenter into the kettle to be boiled? You'll certainly want at least silicone hosing but you are now looking at 5 syphonings per brew instead of just one as you get with BIAB. THat's a MAJOR gaps. You are also going to either have to lift the vessel to a height that can be syphoned or create or build 3 levels on which to brew on unless you want to buy a pump. Taps and stands cost money. The end result tis still going to be a more complex and harder to operate system.
5. Sparging Knowledge: Once again this is a major hurdle for the novice brewer. The advice out there is often poor and/or conflicting. A novice even before getting their head around the spargiing process has to understand the difference between fly and batch-sparging and then know enough about them to be able to work out if people's advice refers to batch or fly.

Of course I could write a lot more and I and many others have written more before. But surely what Thirsty has written and the above though are enough to prevent the thinking brewer from writing some of the things that have been written in the bling thread?

Going to write some more here now but as it is a few different subjects, I'll put it in a separate post.

Spot,
Pat

 

[PistolPatch]

Darren's Proposal

Thirsty, where Darren says you won't need the bag in his proposal, I'd say that what you would do is treat the end of the boil as one big batch-sparge. In other words, drain some wort off until it becomes clear, tip it back in the kettle and drain slowly.

I must say I'm not real confident in what the beer would taste like but I'd love to see the test. I mean maybe it will taste alright? Could it?

Looking to get back into AG after 3yrs,This sound like a easy way to begin.Have only read a few postings,Have a few questons if anyone can help.What size bag?Are they easy available.Do you have to sparge?

Wrightyman

Sorry Wrighty. It looks as though your question got a little lost.

I reckon what you will need to do is download the BIABBooklet that you can get from Post #1 of this thread. It has lots of lics and will answer all your questions. You'll also need to read the first line of the first post as it will direct you to one major correction to the guide.

I trust this will give you all your answers plus a lot more.

Looking at doing my first BIAB as my grain bill is starting to get too big for my partial set up. The equipment i have is a 40L and 10L urn. Questions are can i put a weldless thermometer through the side of he big urn or will this pierce the bag? Where is the jury on using a bucket and sparging? I have a small roll of SS mesh could i use this to make the basket or will the mesh size be too large?

Thanks Dan

Looks like some of your questions got missed too Dan. I'm all written out here now but have sent you a PM that should help.

Cheers
Pat

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Darren's Proposal

Thirsty, where Darren says you won't need the bag in his proposal, I'd say that what you would do is treat the end of the boil as one big batch-sparge. In other words, drain some wort off until it becomes clear, tip it back in the kettle and drain slowly.

I must say I'm not real confident in what the beer would taste like but I'd love to see the test. I mean maybe it will taste alright? Could it?
Sorry Wrighty. It looks as though your question got a little lost.

I reckon what you will need to do is download the BIABBooklet that you can get from Post #1 of this thread. It has lots of lics and will answer all your questions. You'll also need to read the first line of the first post as it will direct you to one major correction to the guide.

I trust this will give you all your answers plus a lot more.
Looks like some of your questions got missed too Dan. I'm all written out here now but have sent you a PM that should help.

Cheers
Pat

Slightly OT. Personally I cant wait to see my first BIAB done by you Biabers.Beware I will pick the sh.t out of your processes. As an expierienced brewer I find any inovation too tempting to miss.You never know I may try one myself but with my own slant (hessian sack maybe).Keep the bag clean and treat the knockers mean.All in fun. Cheers Gryphon brewing

 

[jayse]

I really didn't want to get into this argument but it looks like its a bit late for that so I'll make a final parting post and bow out and quite happily be thought the dude in the wrong.

This post has nothing at all to do with BIAB at all its a post about how brewing is not as hard as Pat would have you believe.

Here's my response as to some reasons why people should think twice before they advise that a mash tun system is easier, just as cheap or better than BIAB.

2. Building a Mash Tun is not as easy as people make out for many novice brewers unless they have someone to help them along. Understanding the principles of a mash tun can be a very confusing, contradictory subject to learn about. It is often expensive as well. As Thirsty said, not many people stay thrilled with the bucket in bucket system and so you need an esky, a tap mechanism and a manifold. THe manifold is one area that gets very confusing due to the high amount of conflicting advice.

I'am not starting to think twice yet.
Its maybe thoughts like this that make it sound like its confusing, conflicting and contradictory. Its not rocket science.
Most novice brewers are maybe getting there heads around this for the first time but its not the first time they have had to use their brains.
It seems your trying to actually make it sound more difficult than it is on purpose to help your arguement.

The how to brew books or online have all the information needed on mashtun design etc plus more and is written by a well respected member of the brewer community.

3. Mash Tun Temperature: To correct the temp in a mash tun system requires either very expensive pumping and heating mechanisms, an immersion element or cheapest of all, adding hotter water which can be a tricky thing to judge. With BIAB, you just add some flame for a minute or so and therefore can easily keep things accurate at zero expense.

Don't forget we all had to get degrees in rocket science which cost quite a lot :unsure:
Again your trying to make it sound more of a drama than it really needs to be.

4. Tiers or Levels: This is a major factor that no proponent of mash tuns has mentioned in the bling thread. It is VERY major. Jayse's idea of just having a 2 vessel system and using the fermenter to fill the gaps, ignores just how big those gaps are. How do you transfer the hot water from your kettle into the HLT?

How do BIABers get the wort from the kettle into the fermentor? well do the same thing for this.

How do you transfer the mash from HLT to fermenter?

why would the mash be in the HLT and why would you want to put it straight into the fermentor?

How do you transfer wort from fermenter into the kettle to be boiled?

Thats a bit backwards the wort goes from the kettle into the fermentor and would be the exact same way as you do it for BIAB.

You'll certainly want at least silicone hosing

You only need one piece.

......but you are now looking at 5 syphonings per brew instead of just one as you get with BIAB. THat's a MAJOR gaps. You are also going to either have to lift the vessel to a height that can be syphoned or create or build 3 levels on which to brew on unless you want to buy a pump. Taps and stands cost money. The end result tis still going to be a more complex and harder to operate system.

You'd only need two levels, everyone I know has the first level sorted the ground! Second level can be anything from the BBQ, old table, back of the ute. I don't know buts it not to hard to work out.
Don't you need that anyway to BIAB to get the wort into the fermentor?
Theres no real major extra lifting anything but I'am not about to explain how to brew from the start to finish right here. Hey wait don't you need to lift for BIAB? actually to the point your thinking of setting up a skyhook.

5. Sparging Knowledge: Once again this is a major hurdle for the novice brewer. The advice out there is often poor and/or conflicting. A novice even before getting their head around the spargiing process has to understand the difference between fly and batch-sparging and then know enough about them to be able to work out if people's advice refers to batch or fly.

Your really trying your hardest.
I don't see how learning about sparging which can be summed up in a couple paragraphs is any different than learning about BIABing.
Do your mash, drain add your needed water then drain again, simple.
major hurdle? hardly
advice often poor and/ or conflicting? never found that to be true. Its quite simple, nothing like you try and make it out to be.

Of course I could write a lot more

Of course you could.

But surely what Thirsty has written and the above though are enough to prevent the thinking brewer from writing some of the things that have been written in the bling thread?

What thirsty has said is great, he's not trying to tell people that novice brewers are stupid and that traditional brewing is harder than it actually is like you are.


prevent the thinking brewer from...............
This is a internet forum and I'am always right
I'am not even knocking BIAB I'am knocking the way you seem to think traditional brewing is something no novice brewer could possibly get there head around.
BIAB clearly has less equipment less steps etc and I have no problem with the all in one brewery ideas but you don't have to make all these exhagerations on how complex traditional brewing actually is to try and sell your ideas.

Anyway I'am quite happy to bow out of this arguement and be wrong, don't really care.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I really didn't want to get into this argument but it looks like its a bit late for that so I'll make a final parting post and bow out and quite happily be thought the dude in the wrong.

This post has nothing at all to do with BIAB at all its a post about how brewing is not as hard as Pat would have you believe.
I'am not starting to think twice yet.
Its maybe thoughts like this that make it sound like its confusing, conflicting and contradictory. Its not rocket science.
Most novice brewers are maybe getting there heads around this for the first time but its not the first time they have had to use their brains.
It seems your trying to actually make it sound more difficult than it is on purpose to help your arguement.

The how to brew books or online have all the information needed on mashtun design etc plus more and is written by a well respected member of the brewer community.
Don't forget we all had to get degrees in rocket science which cost quite a lot :unsure:
Again your trying to make it sound more of a drama than it really needs to be.
How do BIABers get the wort from the kettle into the fermentor? well do the same thing for this.
why would the mash be in the HLT and why would you want to put it straight into the fermentor?
Thats a bit backwards the wort goes from the kettle into the fermentor and would be the exact same way as you do it for BIAB.
You only need one piece.
You'd only need two levels, everyone I know has the first level sorted the ground! Second level can be anything from the BBQ, old table, back of the ute. I don't know buts it not to hard to work out.
Don't you need that anyway to BIAB to get the wort into the fermentor?
Theres no real major extra lifting anything but I'am not about to explain how to brew from the start to finish right here. Hey wait don't you need to lift for BIAB? actually to the point your thinking of setting up a skyhook.
Your really trying your hardest.
I don't see how learning about sparging which can be summed up in a couple paragraphs is any different than learning about BIABing.
Do your mash, drain add your needed water then drain again, simple.
major hurdle? hardly
advice often poor and/ or conflicting? never found that to be true. Its quite simple, nothing like you try and make it out to be.
Of course you could.
What thirsty has said is great, he's not trying to tell people that novice brewers are stupid and that traditional brewing is harder than it actually is like you are.
prevent the thinking brewer from...............
This is a internet forum and I'am always right
I'am not even knocking BIAB I'am knocking the way you seem to think traditional brewing is something no novice brewer could possibly get there head around.
BIAB clearly has less equipment less steps etc and I have no problem with the all in one brewery ideas but you don't have to make all these exhagerations on how complex traditional brewing actually is to try and sell your ideas.

Anyway I'am quite happy to bow out of this arguement and be wrong, don't really care.

Cheers Jayse ,It was all really getting out of hand anyway.You have said your piece and im sure every body will repect that.We will all go on brewing how we want to brew and be happy. :beerbang: Gryphon brewing

 

[PistolPatch]

Last night I thought I'd have to write another long reply to jayse's post but let's face it, all I'd be doing is repeating what has already been clearly and logically said. I'll leave it to the readers here to work out both what is sensible and whether the intentions of the writers here have been productive or just plain interruptive. To get a better idea of the latter, you'll have to read the BIAB bling thread. It's pretty clear there.

 

[Fents]

THIS SPACE FOR SALE - ADVERTISE HERE AND GET SEEN BY EVERYONE

PM PRICE!

:lol:

 

[PistolPatch]

You idiot Fents - lol!

Hey you still haven't explained the two meanings of spot ya? Hanging to know.

Spot!

 

[Fents]

did you not check that spot link?

If i say "spot ya" it means im driving the hot knives!

 

[PistolPatch]

Ah, now I get it Fents! I totally missed the link as I read the post in email form.

So, 'spot ya'is a friendly term in more ways than one - lol. What an educational thread this is!

 

[PistolPatch]

Guess what? This is my last post to AHB!

Ive been contemplating this for a while as some of you know but now is the time.

The Reasoning

It seems as though my writing style has begun to attract a few but very unproductive people lol! When I present facts, these people will side-step the facts and call me fanatical or turn an innocent intention into something negative. The last two threads I have started on AHB have quickly ended up as a disgrace. In fact my last thread, started off after a few beers, was something intended to be nice but quickly labelled as strange. This of course prevented anyone from actually following with the thread intention without risk of ridicule. No one here is going to want to whack in any BIAB bling ideas for the same reason. So, if my posts lead so quickly into an unproductive disarray, it is simply pointless to post and in fact, harmful to innocent others and to innocent ideas. For example, whilst informed readers here can easily sort out sense and nonsense, newer troops will only get bewildered by illogical and unproductive posts or threads.

The Great Troops on AHB

The people above are few. The overwhelming majority of brewers on AHB are truly tops and Im lucky that Ill be able to continue to communicate and have beers with many of these guys either here or in other states a real pleasure. Im also looking forward to maintaining my communications and having beers with many of you from this thread. You couldnt ask for a thread with nicer people great humour, great sense and great contributors. Some of the BIAB posts on AHB have truly amazed me several in the last few days alone in fact.

A Couple of Things I Can Do

I thought I might be able to still contribute here and elsewhere on AHB in a productive way by doing the following things...

1. In the unlikely event that I have any good ideas, Ill convey them to someone here and ask them to pass them on if they think they have merit.
2. Ill do a quick-re-write of one section of the BIAB Booklet to get rid of the escalator mash error. If anyone wants to re-write or add parts to the booklet, just let me know and Ill re-post your revised .pdf and mention your changes in Post #1 of this thread.
3. If anyone wants anything changed or added to the first 4 posts of the thread, once again, let me know.
4. BIAB Competitions I have already two great blokes here that are going to help me out with getting some beers into competitions. Ill keep a few people here informed on how this goes and they can pass any news on.
5. Im still happy to answer the questions I sometimes get sent via PMs and if I see that someone has a question that I think I can help with then Ill send them a PM as well.

Im looking forward to being further educated by both the traditional and BIAB brewers who contribute so well to this thread and elsewhere on AHB. I find so much of the information truly fascinating.

So thanks a heap guys and happy brewing to you,
Pat

P.S. The real reason why I cant post anymore is that I have a new girlfriend. Heres a happy snap for you

 

[LovesToBrew]

whooaaa dude, you're out there!

 

[matti]

I don't blame you, Pat.
She looks luvely hehehehe

 

[Hashie]

Sorry to see it come to this. All the best Pat.

I can say that it was your idea of BIAB that got me into AG, I'd still be doing K&K otherwise.

Sorry that you feel the way you do, however, having read the threads, I can understand.

Cheers Hashie

 

[Doogiechap]

You'll be missed bloke !
Your contribution has been appreciated by many ! Much better beer has been brewed thanks to you !
Good to hear you will continue lurking and helping .
A sad end to this chapter of AHB .
Doug

 

[big d]

Oh well if Pats off AHB then i guess the get together at his place is cancelled.Looks like i will never get to meet him.

Cheers
Big D

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Oh well if Pats off AHB then i guess the get together at his place is cancelled.Looks like i will never get to meet him.

Cheers
Big D

Leave it out .The guys not dead :beerbang: Fun in the sun at Freo.