A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[PistolPatch]

I nearly cried with happiness

Doesn't get better than that Spills :beerbang:

Interesting reading about your rinsing as I got an email from Ned today saying he does the same thing. I now just suspend my bag in a bucket and let it frain until the wort comes to the boil. By this time the bag has drained with no squeezing or anything. (Yesterday a combination of tiredness, AHB and drinking whilst brewing made me forget to add that drained wort. Agh!!!! Didn't notice until after I'd chilled. Had to fire up again which of course meant more beers. Double agh!)

Look forward to hearing how your other brews taste. Bloody nice to be able to drink them so quickly eh?

davekate Great to hear that you got under way. It is pretty hard in the small pot especially on the stove top so you've done really well.

The 3 ring burner is around $35 from any camping store so definitely grab one.

The OG and FG above sounds dodgy. The only figure you should have is an OG for now as FG can't be determined until after fermentation. Did you get the 1.009 from a computer program. The 1.035 is a bit low for a standard beer. 1.045 or above would be closer to the mark. If it happens again, you might need to take a hard look at your thermometer or better still, check it against someone else's before your next brew.

The cooling in your freezer is fine. The quicker it cools the better but cooling it initially in the bath first is a good idea. I wouldn't be chucking it in the freezer until it reached the stage where the bath no longer worked. What I do is throw my paddle (paint stirrer) in the brew for the last 10 minutes of the boil and put the lid slightly on. This sterilises them. At flame off, I put a clean nappy over the top of the lot to decrease the risk of contamination. During the chill, I can then just jiggle the stirrer up and down occassionally so the brew chills faster.

As for what to brew next, the pale ale sounds good. It's a very popular brew and the ones I've tasted have been either good or excellent.

Thanks to both of you for letting us know how you went.

Spot,
Pat

 

[The King of Spain]

Deaves, if you crack the lager challenge let me know immediatley!!! Zizzle will want it too

Close but not there yet (initial comments influenced by a few APAs first). After talking over with Ross I reckon that a change of yeast will clear the last hurtle. I've been using Notts with my Largers and have wrongly blamed the estery taste on brewing technique, fluffing 'round with conventional mash in vols etc. There is nowhere to hide with a lightly hopped Larger and the one brew I liked (under influence) had a higher IBU to help mask this. Bottom line problem is Nottingham yeast in Larger.

None of my Summer Ales using US56 has displayed this so the next Larger is a US56 clone which I think will be more neutral. My last 4 largers (yep I want to get this one day) used Galaxy (4.2kg) Wheat (0.5kg) and Rice Flakes(0.2kg). The resulting beer has a great head which beads down the glass and has a low FG and was very clear. Next time I will stick with about 45g of hallertau hops in for full boil as opposed to my masking attempt with the last brew.

Just to make sure I will turn temp up to 22C after hitting 1015 and will keep you posted with a more objective observation with results.

Cheers

 

[PistolPatch]

Time to Pass On the Fruits of All Your Labours

As mentioned the other day, I've had some ideas on re-writing the guide. I've started a new thread that asks for your help and ideas in re-writing the guide so the fruits of our labours can be passed on. Would really appreciate your thought and then feedback there.

Meanwhile...

Phrak gave his BIAB to a few of the Sydney guys last night and from what I've heard, it went down very well. And Deaves, keep us posted on those elusive lagers!

Cheers
Pat

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks for the feedback etc in the thread above. I've replied there. Also, a few questions came up...

A few troops were wondering how to BIAB existing partial and AG recipes.

For Partial Recipes: There might be a way to convert these but I'm not sure. There should be no need though as you will probably find many more AG recipes in any particular style you wish to brew.

For AG Recipes: BIAB is the same as normal AG so there is no need to modify any existing AG recipe. Use exactly the same quantities etc. Too easy!

ThirstyBoy Did you post BIAB onto the American forum? I haven't had a chance to look as yet and I think I've forgotten my password by now - lol. If you did, was there any feedback? (Hopefully they didn't get it confused with their 'brewing in a bag' which is some type of kit that is brewed in some sort of collapsible plastic fermenter). Also any ideas on the modification to your brewing method that I threw in above?

Easy Recipes to Brew Those of you who have been looking for an easy beer to brew, the Altbier and APA I suggested above would be a great start - very forgiving. I just did both of these and made some major brewing errors on both - some unavoidable on the day, others had something to do with brewing whilst under the influence. The beers were...

Batz's Altbier His recipe is in the recipe section. To ferment use Nottingham yeast at 14 degrees. This is a great alternative to those wanting to brew a lager and tastes a hell of a lot better than any lager I've tasted to date.

My Brewing Errors: I had to use T58 and pitched very high (should have just waited until the next morning) due to the dissapearance of some of my chilling hoses and then crash chilled to 18 degreees. Because of this this beer fermented out in about 5 seconds so the banana flavour is there but it's still very drinkable. Can't wait to brew this again with correct yeast and temps.

NRB 'All Amarillo APA': You can find that here Zizzle brewed one for the Swap and it was brilliant. I brewed this last Sunday whilst having too many beers and posting to AHB. Here's proof that it is very forgiving...

My Brewing Errors: Pulled my bag out to drain whilst bringing wort to the boil and totally forgot about it. Noticed the bucket full of 8 litres of wort (I've given up on squeezing - just twirl a bit now before I pull it out of the kettle) just after I finished chilling. Whoops! Re-boiled the 8 litres but can't remember for how long. Maybe half an hour. Also added another 7g of Amarillo to this at flame out but have no idea why - lol!

I'm having my first one now and I must say I am stoked.

:super:
Pat

 

[Thirsty Boy]

PP.

I haven't inflicted the BIAB debate on the poor seppos yet, but I will do it in the near future. Actually would have done it already, but in responding to a question by one of the guys there about chilling his wort with less/no water, i started the No-Chill thing up over there and re-ignited an argument here as well.

Thought I would try not be too big a stirrer and not introduce another controversial topic too soon after the last.

I'll wait for the modified guide so they cant confuse the method. As I said in your other thread, let me know if I can give you a hand with that.

As for doing BIAB at a normal L:G, then adding the rest of the water and heating it back up.... dunno. It doesn't sound right, but I dont know why. I can't really think of a reason it would be bad. Have to try it and see I suppose.

Maybe it would knock your mash back down to Beta temperatures for too long and you would end up with a thin beer? But if you start high trying to compensate, then you denature them and end up with sweet beer....

If your house water is carbon filtered, you could just use hot tap water that would be close to mash temps anyway. I reckon that'd work pretty much without a hitch.

Me, I'm probably gonna try my alternative mehod, just to see if it works, then I might try your version of it, but apart from that, I think I will just be sticking to the original BIAB format, its too easy and simple to mess with unless I have to. If I want complicated, I will just use my 3 vessle system.

See ya

Thirsty

 

[3GumsBrewing]

Guys, let me just say that I am absolutely hooked on BIAB, I did my second one yesterday, a Amarillo Ale.
I picked up a 4 ring burner on Friday and brewed outside, the whole process went so damn well from start to finish, definitely easier than on the stove top!

PP thank for clarifying converting AG recipes to BIAB, I had it in the back of my mind that it would be a simple as that but just wanted to make sure.

Just one more small question, I really would like to try this recipe next time - TDA's FLY-BLOWN BELGIAN I noticed that it calls for 0.30kgs of cane sugar. Am I correct in saying that this just goes in the bag at the same time as the malt?

Cheers and thanks again for getting me away from kits!

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Guys, let me just say that I am absolutely hooked on BIAB, I did my second one yesterday, a Amarillo Ale.
I picked up a 4 ring burner on Friday and brewed outside, the whole process went so damn well from start to finish, definitely easier than on the stove top!

PP thank for clarifying converting AG recipes to BIAB, I had it in the back of my mind that it would be a simple as that but just wanted to make sure.

Just one more small question, I really would like to try this recipe next time - TDA's FLY-BLOWN BELGIAN I noticed that it calls for 0.30kgs of cane sugar. Am I correct in saying that this just goes in the bag at the same time as the malt?

Cheers and thanks again for getting me away from kits!

Let's face it...

Moving from kit beer to all-grain is like changing from jocks to boxer shorts. Some blokes just can't come to terms with it, but others really enjoy the freedom.

 

[PistolPatch]

Thirsty: Thanks for your answers above. LOL on your no-chill stuff on the American forum (saw your posts there the other day). And, yep I think that sticking to the full volume is the way to go unless someone has a real pot size limitation. Thanks also for your offer of help. Still recovering from Asher's brewday so can't think of anything off the top of my head. I'm sure though that when you link or post the new guide in the US, you'll have your hands full answering questions there

davekate: Wrapped to hear that all went so well for you. It's a great beer that Amarillo I think. With the sugar in the Belgian, just throw it in at the beginning of your boil. Thanks for letting us know how you went - top stuff!

Large Pots Was chatting with a few of the guys at Asher's yesterday and apparently you can get 100 litre pots over here for $50. (I'm not sure what the next size down is.) They are thin-bottomed but if you can keep the bag off the bottom and use a ring burner, apparently there shouldn't be any problems with using one of these in the short-term for BIAB. This makes things very cheap.

 

[PistolPatch]

As usual, on my way out the door, but just quickly, ThirstyBoy has written a very good post on THe Brewing Network forum in the US introducing BIAB there. There's a link to it in this post where I've also asked if anyone if they want to volunteer to summarise a block of this thread.

Bayweiss, posed a few questions in another thread that I said I'd answer here. Here's his questions...

But, I have a few questions...

1. Does any of the grain make it through the bag to the wort? For example, in regular all-grain techniques you would clear your runnings before placing the mashwater into the kettle.
2. Is the bag a pain in the butt to clean? I remember doing partial-mashs (I hated it) with a grain bag, and cleaning it took a long time.
3. Is the extraction efficiency using this technique predictable and repeatable given you are using the same grain mill?

1. The bag is very fine so no grain makes it through.
2. The main bag cleans easily but mine is poorly made where the drawstring goes so often grain creeps into the drawstring seam. This can be annoying. Does anyone else get that ny the way?
3. Yes the efficiency is predictable and repeatable - no worries there.

Gotta go,
Pat

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

2. The main bag cleans easily but mine is poorly made where the drawstring goes so often grain creeps into the drawstring seam. This can be annoying. Does anyone else get that ny the way?
Gotta go,
Pat

Hi buddy , Yes I get a bit of spent grain in the drawnstring seams as well. However it only takes a minute with the hose to clean it up. Still haven't been to Cairns to get more cloth to build another bag yet but will soon.


Good to see the positive responces from the septic tanks...

:beer:

 

[bayWeiss]

...from the septic tanks...
:beer:

careful, we/they loom around here closer than you think... :excl:

:lol:

I may give this BIAB a go someday... but, the thing is I do not do a full wort boil in one pot. I "Texas-Two Step" it due to lack of a decent sized kettle and a good means of heating. When I get a full sized pot, I guess it would be easier to try then.

cheers!

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

careful, we/they loom around here closer than you think... :excl:

:lol:

cheers!

Nothing ment by it bayweiss . dont take it personaly... :beer:

 

[v8r]

well, isnt this thread a monster read! being a K&K'er, im pretty keen to go AG but the 3 tier setup is a bit out of reach atm. BIAB looks the goods, now to "discover" a brewpot, burner, a bag and get going.

 

[Hashie]

well, isnt this thread a monster read! being a K&K'er, im pretty keen to go AG but the 3 tier setup is a bit out of reach atm. BIAB looks the goods, now to "discover" a brewpot, burner, a bag and get going.

Your in the same boat as me.

I never thought I would be able to go all grain for the same reason. I lost my AG virginity last week, now I can't wait to do my next one.

All you really need is a big boiler, a burner/immersion heater and a bag. Oh, and a thermometer.

Go for it, you wont look back. :super:

 

[PistolPatch]

A few guys are working on distilling the posts in this thread to make it easier to quickly identify and/or find information. These summaries will be put into one of the top four posts once completed. In the meantime please offer any improvements etc. Please feel free to be super-critical - of mine at least. I've probably written too much but when the othe summaries are written, I'll probably put all credits into one post which will shorten the actual summary part.

Here you go...

A Summary of Posts 1-50 of This Thread[/b]

Posts 1-4 are meant to be the guts of the BIAB thread but are in need of a major overhaul. This is being worked on now. Of the remaining posts...

apd suggested that picture sizes in the BIAB Booklet could be reduced even further. He offered for me to send them to him to be reduced something I'll take him up on

FingerlickinB had a lot of problems doing a decent brew. Later it was discovered that his thermometer was faulty so make sure that your thermometer is accurate.

Zizzle did the first eBIAB (Electric BIAB) and produced a great beer.

Phrak linked some very interesting threads in Post #8

jimmysuperlative who also offered great encouragement as I was writing the guide suggested starting a sort of BIAB register. I think this is a great idea. Maybe a thread called, 'BIAB User's Register' or something would be very interesting. People could initially write down when they started, how many brews they've done, whether they have changed from or back to traditional. They could update their progress occassionally by copying 'the list' down.

Coodgee and Adamt simultaneously started 'teching' up the BIAB spreadsheet. Phrak joined in and had all night competitions with Adamt in the development. These guys put in a lot of work. More feedback from users is needed for this to be developed further I think.

Finally, apart from the above, the usual guys offered us all encouragement. These guys were FNQBunyip (been brewing for 20 years or more), James Squire (mentioned in Post #1 of this thread), Ross (taught me how to AG,provided the black beer recipe and also told me what sort of material to use), and AndrewQLD (did a full volume batch-sparge to test this principle out). There were others who helped a lot to in James Squire's original thread. I need to go through that as well to acknowledge the guys like Trough Lolly who wrote some brilliant stuff.

 

[poppa joe]

DONT FORGET THE CAKE STAND>
Otherwise you would have....BBIAB(Burnt Bag In A Bucket)
Cheers
PJ

 

[blackbock]

Summary of Posts 51-100 in this thread:

A number of brewers tested BIAB during this period including Phrak, AdamT, Zizzle, Fingerlickin_B, MaxT, FNQ_Bunyip, jimmysuperlative, Hughman, James Squire (sorry if anyone got left out just an oversight, no conspiracy!)

A number of beers were taste-tested and found to be acceptable, including AndrewQLDs pilsener recipe.

PistolPatch decided to include Rosss Black Beer into new checklist format.

Phrak and AdamT's spreadsheet blew PistolPatch and everyone else away, PP offered suggestions for minor spreadsheet improvements.

FNQ burnt a hole in his brew bag while using his NASA burner. PistolPatch made the suggestion to use a cakestand on the bottom of the kettle to avoid this.

AdamT reported on his BIAB Pale Ale effort using a calico supermarket bag. He found the bag weave too tight and experienced various other problems on brewday, ...AdamT wondered how to tell if tannins have been extracted into the wort. PP suggested that AdamT's bag needs to line the kettle, not be suspended in it, so using a pillow-slip wouldn't work either. Some suggestions for obtaining materials for, and manufacturing a suitable bag were made (try Spotlight.) It was suggested that insulation of the kettle/tun is not really necessary, and simply by keeping the lid on Pat loses little temperature during his mashes. Pat planned to try an "escalator mash" (constant temperature rise) on weekend with the aim of eliminating strike temp calcs. He suggested to AdamT that tannin extraction will not occur using BIAB.

PistolPatch reported problems with using the "escalator mash". Suggests to forget it.

Several brewers discussed options for lifting the bag out of the kettle during/after mash. FNQ_Bunyip and James Squire each came up with their own systems that worked for them, and FNQ successfully performed a temperature rise using his.

PistolPatch made a number of suggestions to MaxT, including: No need to worry about mash temp. consistency. At this stage of BIAB few brewers/tasters could pick the difference between different mash temperatures. Keeping the lid on kettle during mash is very important though.

Phrak announced a planned double-batch BIAB ale. Options for heavy grain bill, including double-layer bag, top up using extract, or split batch were outlined.

James Squire described his Bucket-alternative-to-Bag system and provided a link.

PistolPatch commented on double batch BIAB: A pulley system might be required due to the weight. He thought the bucket system could work, but concerned it could melt if allowed to remain near sides of kettle too long. PP thought brewers might be better off doing a double batch after having successfully trialled a single-size batch.

 

[PistolPatch]

What a top job bb!

The second block looks a lot more interesting than the first or is that because of the distiller

bb wrote his summary before mine and sent me an email asking, "Here's a draft," and then before I even had a chance to reply," he sent the above modification asking, "Is this better?"

bb, you must have spent a heap of time on the above. All I can say is....

Perfect!

Can't tell you how much doing the above helps me personally let alone how much time and confusion it is going to save others. I hope you get a few PM's or posts here that just say thanks.

Thanks mate,
Pat

P.S. Now PJ, was it you who suggested the cake stand? I remember all the people, (I think???,) who have made a contribution to BIAB but sometimes don't remember why - hence the thread summaries. As I've said before, you are the master 'AHB Acquirer of Cheap Equipment' and the best thread bumper ever! We can't forget the cake stand though. I thought the summaries would credit you here but I've been given the credit - lol!!!! Did you bring that idea up in the All In One Brewery thread? Please let me know!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Summary of posts 201-250 in this thread:

> A bit of chat between a few of the guys who are trying or about to try BIAB and a couple of suggestions for gear. Morrie 2 bags for a double brew & deaves A collapsible mesh storage bag he discovered in Bunnings

> Pistol Patch gives us an expected date for some side by side tastings comparing BIAB to batch sparged brews

> A couple of people try BIAB for he first time and report back

> Some questions are asked and answered about the lack of sparging in BIAB and PP makes a good comparison between BIAB and commercial lautering practises.

> Fingerlickin_B Decides to give BIAB a go, but wants to try using his bag to line an esky style mash tun.

> Deaves - Does his first brew in a bag. But he gets low efficiency and he needs to top up with DME.

> PostModern Adds some important detail to PPs explanation of Mashing and Sparging. He also points out the large Liquor to Grist ratio as a probable flaw in the BIAB process

> Pistol Patch -responds to everybody with his usual encouragement and good suggestions

> Thirstyboy - In response to PostModern, writes a long technical post about mash thickness, enzyme activity and further compares and contrasts between commercial/traditional practise and BIAB

> Jimmysuperlative and Hughman666 - Give some great testimonials about their BIAB experience. Hughman666 says he is moving on to a more traditional system, but is retaining the bag as his method for wort separation, in the same way that Fingerlickin _B planned to try.

> Pistol Patch - Announces the BIAB vs Batch sparge side by side tastings results and posts links. (summary - only 2 of 8 brewers were able to pick the BIAB beers from the batch sparged ones in a triangle test)

> A few more people line up to try BIAB. They ask questions and get hints and suggestions in response.

> Deaves does his second BIAB and his efficiency problem largely goes away

> DrK Posts a long and technically detailed post about Enzymatic Activity and Liquor to Grist ratios. His conclusion is that BIAB will most likely produce overly dextrinous worts with high finishing gravities. He is concerned that a method that . . .will clearly if only after a fashion work. . . is being too heavily pushed as the new, better only way to brew.

> A number of comments about DrKs post. For the most part, appreciative of his input, but defensive of the quality of BIAB beers so far. Maxt - has however been getting lower than expected apparent attenuation. So maybe DrK has a point.

> Pistol Patch - responds to the question of final gravities. He attests that the BIAB brews he has done so far have achieved either similar or identical final gravities to the same recipes brewed traditionally and batch sparged. Further that the side by side test brews produced identical final gravities.

------------------

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Summary of Posts 101-150 in this thread

Several people are trying this technique with varying, but generally positive results.

hughman666 tried using his stovetop to control the mash temperature before moving the pot to his big burner. (102)

Adamt had issues with his voile bag while brewing an American IPA. (103)

lucas split the seams on his bag and retired from the field. (104) Discussion followed about bag design, with a simple design where the seam is not at the bottom appearing to be the winner. (116, 118)

PistolPatch recommends a coarse grain crush, hanging the bag in a bucket while the kettle comes to boil and solidly stitching the bag with nylon thread. (120)

FNQ Bunyip reports using a bag in a 'keg-like vessel' and a pulley setup to lift the bag from the wort and allowing it to drain. (123)

Morrie0069 performs a variant where he mashes in a bag and esky, then does a split boil (127, 129), based on advice from PistolPatch. (130)

PistolPatch advocates taking your bag into the shower to clean it. (133)

Subsequent to this, several people report pleasing results. Alternate bag designs are tendered and the No Sew BIAB Bag With a Drawstring is introduced. (145-147)