Very interesting Idea but I'd want to hear more about the mircobiological side of things. I'm sure I've read somewhere before that you shouldnt put cracked grain in your fermenter as it contains nasty stuff (lacto-something-or-other?) thats almost impossible to kill without a good boil. I think in context the thread was saying dont use your fermenter to catch whats coming out of your grain mill because you wont be able to use it as a fermenter again, but I'm not sure I'd be putting unboiled wort in a fermenter either.
Not really sure.... I would guess that 60mins would be enough. But if you are already doing 90mins why change? stick with 90mins to be on the safe side, get a few brews down the track and re-brew a recipe with only a 60min mash (everythig else the same) and see what happens. Tell me what effect it has and then we'll both know
Edit - PS: One more thing about BIAB. People keep saying that squeezing the bag will extract tannins. Why? Why would it? If it does, why aren't they extracted when a commercial Thin Bed Mash Filter physically compresses the grain bed in order to squeeze out residual wort? No answers for this one, just questions.
Anyone ever underlet the BIAB?
cheers
Darren
Darren, BIAB is done in one vessel & the water is preheated in that vessel, so makes underletting a little difficult.
Cheers Ross
Ross,
I see, a bit hit and miss on temperature? I saw some posts on under attenuation?
BIAB could be used for step mashing if you could keep the burner going.
Heat the pot a little low (65C) drop the grain in. Keep the heat on. Raise to temp ot 65-68. Stir. Raise to 75. Pull bag out. Sqeeze once (or drain).
Start the brew
Fermentabilty is the result of initial mash temps (15 mins) rather than the whole 90 mins. Enzymes break down very easily. Once they are dead they cannot be repaired.
You definately should use a good thermometer for this method too. (Glass ones break easily. Digital are around the same price).
What I mean is, if you want fermentable wort (lager/pils) then "dough- in" a lower mash temps (61-65). If you want dextrinous wort (English/Irish ale) aim for 68-73C.
Keep this in mind and I cant see why it would not work!
cheers
Darren
About the tannins... My main reason for not really believing that tannins would be a problem from either a fine crush, or from squeezing, is that breweries who Thin Bed Mash Filter lautering systems (used in europe quite a bit) finely crush, in fact hammer mill to powder, their grist and ALSO squezze the grain bed pretty damn hard in order to squeeze out wort and minimise volume/weight of spent grain to dispose of. The extraction of tannins wasn't even mentioned as a concern in the text I studied. My guess is that if the ph is OK and the temp isn't too high, you couldn't squeeze the grist hard enough by hand to extract any significant amount of tannins.
Of course, thats just my reasoning. I'd love ot hear from someone who believes otherwise because I really dont understand the whole tannin extraction thing all that well. Dont want to go telling people to squeeze if I'm just full of **** (even though I already have.. oops)
Thirsty
Ultimately, if you want to squeeze you bag then squeeze away and decide for yourself whether or not it tastes bad. There are many variables in brewing based on scale and equipment and theoretical speculation will only carry so far.
Very interesting Idea but I'd want to hear more about the mircobiological side of things. I'm sure I've read somewhere before that you shouldnt put cracked grain in your fermenter as it contains nasty stuff (lacto-something-or-other?) thats almost impossible to kill without a good boil. I think in context the thread was saying dont use your fermenter to catch whats coming out of your grain mill because you wont be able to use it as a fermenter again, but I'm not sure I'd be putting unboiled wort in a fermenter either.
unrelated to that though, I'm giving BIAB another shot. I got my kettle and 5 kg of grains on wednesday so I can finally try a full volume boil. I was planning on using a BIAB style bag in my mash tun instead of mucking about with an easy hooker, but I didnt get around to replacing the tap on the cooler yet so I'm just going to do it the BIAB way instead. first AG here I come
The base line is that you guys are actually on to something very very good, something that could actually make as big a cahnge to home brewing as the Pap a Zap, you are just going the wrong way and unless you open that other eye you will never ever know, will you???
So stop thinking that you are the new wave and look around.
Kynically Yours...
Kurtz
ps.....it will work, just think really hard !!!
ahhh who cares about what dr k says, this is just some plonker how hasn't presented a beer for taste testing to any group, and is probably somebody with a personality too unpleasant too even turn up to a brewers' meeting.
people like this obviously post when they've had one too many tooheys news and are up for a fight from the safety of their armchairs.
#286 from PostModernDr K. Would you sudgest mashing at a standard water : grain ratio and then topping up with hot water before boiling?
Lads, dough in with a "traditional" liquor/grist ratio of about 2.5L/Kg then mash for an hour, then add the rest of the water. Will give the beta amylase time to work in a sensible liquor:grist ratio then the additional water will allow you to soak out a little extra sugar. Your efficiency is never going to be great with BIAB, but at least with a sane or "traditional" liquor:grist ratio, you might get some decent tasting beer.
Cheers and a Beery Xmas to you all.
PoMo.
Your concern about the no-sparging and the idea about dunking the bag has lead me to an epiphany. So I'm going to end this post with the hope that I have maybe helped a bit and ask you to see the next post for my ultimate solution to all the woes and worries of BIAB (well maybe)
I gotta learn to type faster
Thirsty
There you go. Now we are mashing at a normal L:G ratio and we get to sparge as well. So the why nots are pretty much taken care of. We didn't have to buy any extra gear over Full Volume No sparge BIAB and although its a little bit more complex, its not a lot. You just need to juggle the volumes and temps a bit. Of course if you are lazy, you could still just skip the sparging bit and just top your kettle up to pre-boil volume before you pull the bag.
Whaddayareckon?
Thirsty
Can I see any problems, from a brewing process no, from an equipment process...well..in a previous life I sold a lot of rag, hectares of it probably, so I have some knowledge about textiles, these bags, particularly if made from calico or worse muslin are going to degrade, and fairly quickly waht with the combination of heat, moisture, mechanical force..the weight of the grain..and possibly some laxness in so far as cleaning and washing and drying straight way and the various moulds that will form..and one day, soon, without warning the bag, probably on lifting will split and totally bag your brew man.
Some suggestions:
Use a high quality textile (I suggest Trevira CS) for your bag.
Crack as coarsely as your mill will allow.
Do your "mash" at 3:1 L:G
Use some removable insulation during the mashing cycle
When you add your dump sparge water make sure that the total wort temp is not above 70C and let it sit for 10 minutes befoe run off.
Good Luck....
Kurtz
I can see how BIAB would work with the reduced water to grain ratio, but if you need a second pot to get sparge water up, then you have defeated the idea of one vessel brewing.
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