A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[Thirsty Boy]

I'll informed new AG BIABer my bum... hell you have heaps more BIAB experience then me and probably know twice as much about it.

Stack that up against 17years of other homebrewing and I dont know squat campared to you. I have just read a lot.

And I'm an angry and opinionated sort of guy who likes an argument and the sound of my own voice; is all

Actually I just re-read my recent rant and it sounded suspiciously like I was having a crack at Maxt for being inexperienced. That wasn't my intention at all. Sorry Maxt. Shouldn't have included your name in my tirade. Poor form.

I'll shut up and get back inside my box now, before I really make an arse of myself

Thirsty

 

[Maxt]

Maxt,

When I suggested the reduced L:G + sparge method for BIAB, I definately kept in mind that one of the points of BIAB was to not have to have more than one vessel. I just took advanatage of the fact that nobody actually has only one vessel. We all have fermetors as well. You would heat up the extra/sparge water in your kettle and temporarily store it in the fermetor you already have. The use it later in the dilution/sparge process.

Then you eliminate some of the percieved flaws in BIAB without having to buy any more equipment, or take up any more space.

Sorry to see you are off the BIAB wagon, but if it wasn't working for you, what else could you do.

Glad to see that it helped you get into the AG process and its even better to hear that your mash tun is doing the job for you and that you are making great beer. awesome.

Thirsty

No offence taken thirsty!

On heating the sparge water and putting it in the fermenter, my only concern would have been the heat loss during the 60-90min mash. Unless you had an immersion element, it may be hard to hit the right sparge temp without lots of insulation...but there's no reason why it couldn't be done

I really enjoyed my BIAB APA. My BIAB porter and lager werer far too dextrinous for my liking.

I was also doing my beers in the kitchen, so when the minister for dometic affairs (kindly) asked me to relocate I thought I might as well get set up properly in the shed!

The other thing is that as I have an 80L kettle I wanted to start double batches, which was never going to be easy with BIAB.

At the end of the day K&K v BIAB. No comparison. I'm glad I did it.

I look forward to seeing how some of these beers go in comps, because look how much sh*t was thrown when last year's beer of show was a kit!!!!

 

[PistolPatch]

ThirstyBoy: You are the best!!!!!!!! Couldn't agree with you more and thanks for those earlier very informative posts. I think Ned's comment would reflect everyone else's gratitude and agreement too. I mean WTF is MBIAB? Whatever it is, I think drk can start up another thread because it certainly doesn't belong here. Hopefully the new guys reading this thread have not been totally thrown by his posts which have generally been misleading if not actually incorrect (eg the bag perishing!)

Maxt: I've been racking my brains for some time trying to work out why you had a problem with the BIAB. The only thing I can think of mate is maybe not enough agitation and therefore the grain on the bottom of your kettle is being exposed to higher temps??? That's the best I can do sorry.

All: As I currently don't have the internet on, I've been re-writing the BIAB Guide. Half way through so it should be ready soon. Maybe it's better off in the Wikki section???

davekate: Good luck with your first brew!

 

[The King of Spain]

Ive starting using ProMash and have fed my past 6 brews into it to check on OGs. Ive noticed that all have been pretty good except for my Larger which I have made 3 times . I cant do reports as I do not have a full licence yet so here is a screen print. I've used Pilsner as a proxy for Galaxy which was the actual grain used. Expected OG 1044 and actual every time 1038.

Anyone got a comment. What do do reckon about a conventional mash in of 13L.

Cheers

 

[3GumsBrewing]

The pot has been purchased 40L - (Stockpot) got them down to $95.
The bags have been made (thanks Mother in Law)
The grain has been acquired and cracked (PP's Schwarz bier)- http://www.thebrewshop.com.au/

Sunday is the day. The wife is going on a course so I have the house and kitchen to myself!

Wish me luck. :super:

DK

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Its simple, its easy, its fun.

(wrap the pot up in a few of towels when you are mashing, it helps!!)

Good luck and enjoy yourself.

Thirsty

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

(wrap the pot up in a few of towels when you are mashing, it helps!!)

I've wrapped a camping mat around my boiler previously, but the mat doesn't like boil temperatures (I use an immersion heater - I guess it would absolutely hate a mongolian). I've now got a couple of acres of heavy cardboard box (fridge packaging) I'm going to try. Cardboard is usually a pretty good insulator and isn't that fussy about temperature. No good for gas-fired boils, but might be a good option for mashing if you've got access to it?

Gotta lurve the BIAB.

 

[PistolPatch]

deaves: I've found it pretty hard to brew an interesting lager along the styles of a German Lager or Bohemian Pilsner to date. I also haven't tasted anyone else's either in these styles yet that has been brilliant to me. Ross does some great pilsners but they are a little too hoppy for me. I'd say the problem is finding a recipe you like rather than changing your mash in volume which isn't going to make much, if any difference. Batz's Altbier (uses an ale yeast but is then lageres) was brilliant (and some other brewer's alts as well) so the next 'lager' I do will be an Altbier. In the meantime, I've had some great APAs that have gone down very nicely so this will be the ale area that I'll concentrate on next. I think, for now, concentrate on finding a recipe that you know you will like.

Kettle Insulation: I think worrying about insulation with brewing in a bag is an unneccessary complication. In the first 20 minutes, you should be checking the temperature regularly and you'll find that it remains very stable in that first 20 minutes. After this, temperature control is not absolutely critical. The advantage though of BIAB is that if the temp does drop, all you have to do is turn the burner on for a minute or two. Having insulation only makes being able to do this difficult. I'm also hoping that 'taking one for the team' in the interests of BIAB is not going to include someone burning their house down

Looking forward to hearing how you guys above go with your first one.

Spot,
Pat

 

[blackbock]

I gave this BIAB method a bash yesterday (Munich Lager), and I've got to say that it all went very smoothly except for one thing: My efficiency was way down. I mashed in with a ratio of about 3:1 because I was concerned about too thin a liquor:grist ratio. I think this may have been one of my downfalls, as I had no HLT to top up with hot water later. So I did it [topped up with] only warm water, then boiled.

I had a lot of trouble extracting all the sugars from the grain effectively. Squeezing the bag provided as much wort as I wring out without burning myself, but when I had finished, the grain was still very sweet and it almost made me cry because I couldn't access that good stuff!

Maybe Pat or someone who has done it a few times might have some tips here?, but I just can't see how it's ever going to work as well as a traditional sparge.

I will give it one more try, because the advantages are many.

 

[Ross]

I gave this BIAB method a bash yesterday (Munich Lager), and I've got to say that it all went very smoothly except for one thing: My efficiency was way down. I mashed in with a ratio of about 3:1 because I was concerned about too thin a liquor:grist ratio. I think this may have been one of my downfalls, as I had no HLT to top up with hot water later. So I did it [topped up with] only warm water, then boiled.

I had a lot of trouble extracting all the sugars from the grain effectively. Squeezing the bag provided as much wort as I wring out without burning myself, but when I had finished, the grain was still very sweet and it almost made me cry because I couldn't access that good stuff!

Maybe Pat or someone who has done it a few times might have some tips here?, but I just can't see how it's ever going to work as well as a traditional sparge.

I will give it one more try, because the advantages are many.

Blackbock,

Add the entire volume of water to mash with. Don't be concerned with liqour/girst ratios - The beers I've tried made this way have been fine. Trying to sparge grains in a sack is never going to be easy.

cheers Ross

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Blackbock,

What Ross said!! Dont worry about sparging.

Your efficiency probably will be a little lower than with a batch sparge and it will get lower the higher the OG of your beer (if the OG is high from a bigger malt bill rather than a sugar or DME addition)

You could try out the method I propose here, but I dont know if anyone has actually given it a shot yet, so it might not work.

Do a couple with the Full Volume, No sparge. For say a 1048 wort, I'd guess you should get somewhere around 70% efficiency

Thirsty

 

[PistolPatch]

BIAB Efficiency: Blackbock, that's great to hear that you had a crack at the BIAB. Not many people are prepared to vary from their usual brewing method and that is more than fair enough. Once you have any sort of system, the brewing is pretty easy.

Two things...

Firstly, I'm wondering if there could possible be a bellcurve involved in this liquor to grist ratio affecting efficiency? Maybe at the lower volume levels and higher level volumes, efficiency is good whilst in between it is poor? I have no idea. Just a thought.

Secondly, it would be great to see some more figures on BIAB efficency especially as compared to batch-sparging or fly-sparging. As far as I can remember, the only figures we have in this area so far are mine (BIAB efficiency proved 8% higher than my batch-sparge over several brews) and the 2 side by side brews that BradG and I did where BIAB came out about 5% ahead from memory.

If you are going to have another crack though, do as Ross said and go the full volume. 36 litres in my 70 litre Robinox with a one hour boil yields about 23 litres before trub losses. FOr a 90 minute boil try 41 litres.

Seeing as I have just put on a brew now and have also just had my first beer, expect a new thread from me later (very long of course) on BIAB versus Traditional Efficiencies. LOL! Having some keen brewers produce more figures on these efficiencies would be invaluable.

Thirsty's Method: Somehow I missed your method before. How could I have missed one of your posts???? Would the following also work?

What about simplifying it further and just doing normal liquor to grain ratio and then adding the sparge water amount? The problem with this, of course, is the temperature is going to drop from say 66 down to maybe 40 or less and then you will have to bring it back up to mash temp. Could doing this even be a good thing???

Cheers, (for now anyway )
Pat

 

[blackbock]

Thanks guys for your input, full volume all the way seems to be the agreed way to go with this method.

At least now I can compare the results from the two methods and hopefully learn something from the error of my ways.

I just re-checked my figures and it looks like I got about 60% efficiency, which is quite bad, but still better than some have been reporting.

Pat, what you have described in your last paragraph is basically what I tried to do, but using only one vessel it's not easy I can tell you!

 

[PistolPatch]

60% sounds very low. I think the only other time I have heard of this was from some of the guys who tried doing half-batches or who found they had faulty thermometers.

Just thinking here that maybe I haven't emphasised agitation enough...

Batch and fly-sparging are labour-intensive after the mash as that is when their sparging (or rinsing) is done. BIAB however, should be labour-intensive throughout the mash particularly in the first 20-30 minutes as sparging is done simultaneously to the mash.

When I BIAB, I agitate every 5 minutes for the first 25 minutes or so. The first agitation is about 3 minutes. Subsequent agitations range from 1.5 to 3 minutes depending on whether I do a temperature adjustment.

This means that in the first 25 minutes or so of the mash (the critical part) the mash has been agitated at least one-third of that time.

I have an APA mashing now and I am raising the temperature slowly from 62-70 as that's what Batz does on some of his beers and they are all excellent.

I was going to do a 60 minute mash but I'm on AHB so it will be a 90 minute one and of that 90 minutes 30 minutes will have been spent actually agitating the mash.

Thanks to you BlackBock, this is the first time I have actually measured the time spent agitating and maybe this is a very important factor of BIAB????

Uh oh! Writing too much here and forgot to do my last temperature rise. I also did intend this to be a 60 minute mash. Whoops - gotta go!

Pat

 

[The King of Spain]

concentrate on finding a recipe that you know you will like.

Spot on PP. I've just cracked open a larger and this one realy works. Lesson leant for me is that its all about hops/hop schedule. I got the balance right between finishing and bittering. ProMash certainly helps! I cant get the same OGa I'm getting with my APAs so I will simply up the bill next time

Cheers

 

[PistolPatch]

Deaves, if you crack the lager challenge let me know immediatley!!! Zizzle will want it too

Most of the beers I've had in QLD are truly excellent beers but they take some warming up to. After I've had one of Ross's pilsners or Jye/Browndog's APA's, I can't taste anything else afterwards unless they are higher in bitterness value. Just between these 3 you're up tp about 150 IBU's in 3 beers The only thing I can taste after that is Ross's Runination - agh!!!!

So, if you come up with a lager that you can have a session on that is really interesting, let me know. I've nearly totally given up on lagers.

I can't believe that I'm brewing my first APA today. I also can't believe that I didn't brew Batz's Altbier until a few days ago (think I may have buggered that one up as I had to use incorrect yeast and had to pitch early.)

If I started over again, I would brew Ross's Schwartzbier (as in the BIAB guide - very hard to bugger up), then 2 APA's (a not so hoppy one followed by a very hoppy one) and my fourth brew would be Batz's Altbier. Brewing in this order will give you a great range of tastes quickly as well. If you don't like really dark beers then brew a Brown Scottish Ale to start - I've never tasted a dud one of those.

I reckon that NOT doing the above has cost me dearly and God forbid me mucking around with lagers!

 

[poppa joe]

I have one BIAB Under the belt now......
Two weeks in the bottle..Seems a bit different tasting....I just made a BEER ..
Dunno if its an Alt ...Scottish...Schwarwatever...Lager..... Pilsener....?????????
Used a large heavy duty Plastic container With kettle elements + a little immersion
heater...Bucket in the bucket way..With a pond pump recirculating.
NO CHILL..Pitched the next day....EASY PEASY>>
Just got a large electric clothes boiler SS..Gunna give that a whirl...
Didn't take me long to write this..PP
cheers PJ :beerbang:

 

[PistolPatch]

Congratulations Poppa,

I'm guessing that you, the master acquirer of cheap brewing apparatus, have probably managed to do the cheapest AG brew ever! So, are you pleased with the results?

I think I did the longest BIAB brew ever yesterday. To do this, just have two hours sleep the night before, have your first beer at mash in and make sure AHB is turned on :huh:

Was just trying to re-write that last post I did last night Poppa but ended up deleting it - much quicker For those that read it, give me a few days and I'll put a new format up for getting the new guide correctly written.

My bed awaits...

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I did my third e-BIAB yesterday. Another Pale Ale! Final volume was 34litres - I cubed half and put it in the carport. Half went straight into a fermenter and is now (still) cooling in my thermoelectric wine cooler fermentation cabinet. (I will be fermenting half with S-04 and half with Nottingham - the last two have both been with US-56.)

I wrapped my 75litre boiler in cardboard that I got from some fridge delivery guys then a sleeping mat, holding it there with some 25mm climbing tape. It stayed there for the entire process while my 2400W immersion heater ploughed on. I was pushing the limits of what my little heater could do, but the insulation *really* worked during both mash and boil.

I dunk-sparged(tm). Having drained and squeezed the bag (between two big saucepan lids), I poured about 8litres of 70degC water through it and dunked it like a teabag in my 20litre bucket. I squeezed again (probably something about my personality), but probably wouldn't bother with third runnings again. I did not skim. I did use buffered pH solution.

As a filter of sorts, I cable-tied a tight-weave lingerie bag to the downhill side of my syphon tube which emptied into the fermenter. I then took a tube from the fermenter tap into the cube and offed the tap when the cube was full. I have clear wort. To sanitise the lingerie bag, I moistened it in a bowl with some water then into the microwave for a couple of minutes.

After cleaning the whole thing up, I (prematurely) opened a bottle of my first e-BIAB brew after one week in the bottle. I nearly cried with happiness.

 

[3GumsBrewing]

Guys, I did my first BIAB yesterday as well, things I noted :

I really should have got a 50L or greater pot, 40L just is too small, I had to start with 32L plus the grain and top up the extra 6L at the boil.
Also I need to get a ring burner, where do you buy these things at camping stores? I did the whole thing on the stove top, and although I got it up to 66 degrees and keep it there for the required time easily enough, when the time came for the boil it just took forever.
My OG and FG was a bit low I thought - 1.032 and 1.009.
Also cooling it down to 25 degrees was taking a while in the tub with ice and ice bricks, so I cranked up the chest freezer and put it in that, got it down in 30min, is that ok?

All in all I had a great time though, awesome to see how it all works without using kits and malt etc. Whats a good recipe for my next one, maybe a pale ale, Im thinking along the lines of something that is very forgiving again!

Cheers
DK