A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[warrenlw63]

If you join BIAB do you get your own badge and Light Sabre? B)

If so I want in.

Warren -

 

[KoNG]

It's About Time We Formally Validated BIAB

Looking forward to your thoughts,
Pat

P.S. That only took 2hrs 25 minutes! Could be my most 'efficient' post yet

your not serious are you...? Its only making beer at home, soon you'll be looking into getting ISO 9001 accreditation..! h34r:

 

[PistolPatch]

Bayweiss: Thanks for the very interesting info mate. I'm sure the info would be totally correct though I've never seen actual figures pulisehd on stuff like that. I'm guessing the effects are probably quite small. Combine this with the often huge difference between two people's thermometers and the point probably does become negigible for us homebrewers.

Stuster: Yeah, I reckon you are spot on with the temp being more important. Maybe that was what drK was trying to say 250 posts ago

Warren: Bulk Buy on badges and sabres is being organised. Who leaked that info?

Kong: I've been a bit too scared to read that last post. Man was it long! When I said, 'formally validated,' what I meant was to enter the beers in a few comps so users of the method would feel more confident or informed of BIAB's quality. What I'd hate to see is people spending a lot of time or money buying more equipment with the expectation that it will produce a better beer. At this stage there is no evidence to say it will. More evidence though would be a good thing. With this in mind, I'm going to do another two side by side brews with two of the Perth guys. We'll follow this with another triangular testing and this time I will send some bottles off to some professional tasters to see what they reckon. I think tests like this are very interesting and informative. I imagine judge's feedback would be as well.

Adamt: I have no long posts up my sleeve tonight thank God so I'll divert my attention right now to getting the Summary of Summaries done. I can see it will take me about half an hour just to find the summaries! Anyway, expect a significant improvement to Post#3 in a few hours.

Thanks guys,
Pat

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Put me down for doing the Summary of Summaries of Summaries... :blink:

 

[T.D.]

When I said, 'formally validated,' what I meant was to enter the beers in a few comps so users of the method would feel more confident or informed of BIAB's quality.

PP,

I think the biggest problem you face is the name! Like it or not "Brewing in a Bag" has kind of a negative connotation I think. I mean, essentially its just "no-sparge" brewing (apart from some other minor details like the single vessel thing). No-sparge brewing has long been considered a method that can produce extremely good beers. It yields terrible efficiency, obviously, but on the flip side there are no concerns about leaching tannins from the grain husks etc. I just kind of feel as if you are trying to "validate" something that is not a new or technically inferior method (apart from the efficiency bit), purely because it has been effectively "re-labeled" as BIAB. I must say, if I was judging beers in a comp and I knew the next one was brewed with the no-sparge method, I would be anticipating something potentially very good.

 

[warrenlw63]

Which could effectively lead to BIAB splinter groups.

Time to take sides... Are you in fact a jiggler or a dangler? h34r:

Warren -

 

[PistolPatch]

T.D.: Thanks for the excuse to have a break from writing the summaries

BIAB is actually not, 'no-sparge' brewing as traditionally known. 'No-sparge' uses about 2/3 of the total brewing volume of water required in the mash and then the remaining 1/3 that would be normally used for sparging is just added straight to the kettle. This is why the efficiency is low and therefore needs about 25% more grain to compensate but the maltiness is higher. Trough Lolly wrote several brilliant posts on this in the 'All In One Brewery' thread. His first one is here

For this reason, we've been describing BIAB as a 'full-volume' method. BIAB uses the same grain bill as in batching or fly and the same water but ALL the water goes into the mash. So, the efficiency is great but, as with batch-sparging and fly-sparging, you won't get that extra maltiness that comes with 'no-sparge' brewing.

Screwtop came up with the name but he is away at the moment so we can easily change it

LOL
Pat

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I think that, if you wish to think of us as such, we are yet to succeed as evangelists. BIAB brewing is seen by many as a stepping stone to 'proper' all-grain brewing methods and a clear compromise, therefore an inferior method - by others as simply as a silly, ill-informed indulgence that produces inferior beer.

I believe that multi-vessel methods which involve clearly-delineated procedural elements residing in their own vessels and are supported by clubs, societies and influential individuals are an accepted norm. To suggest that a result of similar outcome can be achieved with less expense, procedure and effort is too challenging to many of them.

I am of a view that you can brew very good beer with this method and that it is a valid method. What we have to do is demonstrate this to others (duh!).

The question is how do we do so? Entry to competitions appears to be the most prominent way, along with continual representation in discussion fora, etc.

I suspect that there are too many people with too much to lose for it to gain mainstream acceptance, but in a sense it does not matter - some of us know that it produces a great beer and that (to me at least) is enough.

Sometimes, the best way to prove a point is to simply live it.

Failing that, perhaps we should buy some billboard space promoting Brew In A Bag?

 

[KoNG]

Exactly SpillsmostofIt, I'm the same.. for a few years now i have been longing for the 'false bottom' boys to accept us mere 'braid' lads.!! its ridiculous, just because the major breweries use that process i can tell i get looked at down the nose by those wanky false bottom homebrewers. One day, just one day.. i'll brew a cracking braided APA and win the nationals... show em all i will..!

 

[T.D.]

Exactly SpillsmostofIt, I'm the same.. for a few years now i have been longing for the 'false bottom' boys to accept us mere 'braid' lads.!! its ridiculous, just because the major breweries use that process i can tell i get looked at down the nose by those wanky false bottom homebrewers. One day, just one day.. i'll brew a cracking braided APA and win the nationals... show em all i will..!

Pfft!!! With a braid??? You must be joking! h34r:

I reckon even BIAB would have a better chance than crappy braid!!! :lol:

 

[warrenlw63]

Exactly SpillsmostofIt, I'm the same.. for a few years now i have been longing for the 'false bottom' boys to accept us mere 'braid' lads.!! its ridiculous, just because the major breweries use that process i can tell i get looked at down the nose by those wanky false bottom homebrewers. One day, just one day.. i'll brew a cracking braided APA and win the nationals... show em all i will..!

Hair Braids don't count.

Happy 1000th Braid sissy boy. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Stuster]

Hooray for braided bottoms! :lol:

Sorry to further the OT talk, BIABers.

SMOI, for me and probably a lot of other brewers here, I had my system (if you can call it that) set up before BIAB came up on AHB. So with a system that already serves me fine, there is no reason to try BIAB other than curiousity. However, my general laziness keeps me safe from experimenting with it.

 

[Thommo]

I'll actually be witnessing the BIAB method this Saturday at the HBG Big Brew Day. Phrak is doing one.

I'm really looking forward to it. I've gotten my brother in law back into home brewing after a four year break, and he was really starting to enjoy it. (Then he had a few of my AG's and he's cut back a bit - but on the plus side he's started buying more expensive beer). If it's as simple as it sounds, I may be able to brain wash a new convert for you BIABers.

As for a BIAB winning a noteable prize in a comp, I am sure it can and one day will happen. However, look at all the furore that occurred on this very forum when a kit beer won best in show. Somehow I don't think a BIAB winning will still be enough to convince some die hards that it could be a valid method. :wacko:


Cheers,
Thommo
(A very proud Braid Boy )

 

[PistolPatch]

LOL!

I must say that the traditional brewers here have been extremely supportive. I can only think of one person off the top of my head who has been negative to tell you the truth. Heaps have supplied some interesting scientific points, questions, answers and much encouragement.

So, I don't think traditional guys are looking down on BIAB at all. I just think that it would be good for confidence levels of the guys that have only done or tasted BIABs if we had a few more tasting notes.

Hey Thommo! Make sure you take heaps of pics and ply Phrak with lots of beer. Can't wait to hear the report

Spot ya ron,
Pat

 

[KoNG]

I must say that the traditional brewers here have been extremely supportive.
Spot ya ron,
Pat

i think thats the point "right" there, why has it been decided that BIAB is so removed from traditional brewing..? what is traditional brewing.? jeez we should all be waiting for our barley porridge to spontaneously ferment if we are to be traditional.

We are all just trying to get sugars out of the grain, so to feed our friendly yeast.
no need to complicate or validate things.
Heck CUB have a multi million dollar brewery, yet we all know what they churn out...

and

Just because someone has a "B3" doesnt mean they will create a better beer than us mere braided mortals...

:super:

 

[warrenlw63]

Seriously Pat all it does seem to extend to is you wanting the gratification of reinventing the wheel.

Warren -

 

[Darren]

Heck CUB have a multi million dollar brewery, yet we all know what they churn out...


:super:

Kong,

like to see you churn something even mildly comparable to what they make. I dont like it either but i sure as hell cannot make it.

Yes, I have a couple of goes over the years.

cheers

Darren

 

[PistolPatch]

There is one guy on the forum who has been bag brewing for several years. I sent him a PM and asked him to post more details but unfortunately I didn't hear back. I have been meaning to wade through the All In One thread and try him again.

The method has not been done on a wide scale basis that we know of until now.

If all the guys here who have spent hours and hours thinking through this concept and, in the early days, testing it, have been reinventing the wheel then it would have been nice if someone told us a year ago where the concept was nicely written up for us. It would have saved us all a heap of time.

So, please let us know now where the info on this particular wheel can be found. We'll be pleased to have another source to learn from.

I find it astounding that sometimes when you make a point, then make it several more times in progressively simpler language until your sentences match those in a children's book, the point is still mis-interpreted.

I can't possibly explain the reason/motivation behind wanting to get a few more taste tests done on BIAB beer any simpler or clearer than I already have.

 

[PistolPatch]

While I think of it....

Ned (who is my mate and won't mind me asking the following,) I know you have been away fishing but when you are back, can you tell me/us if the water you use to rinse the grain with are over and above the normal volumes?

From what I read on closer examination whilst summarising the summaries, they actually are extra litres.

But, at what stage should we stop adding those extra litres?

What I am trying to say is that you can add litres of water to both the traditional sparge or BIAB system and you will always get increased efficiency. You will have to compensate this with an increase in boil time though.

Does what I am saying make sense?

What I am thinking is that we could reach near 100% efficiency if we ran enough water through our grain. Then, we would just boil it off. But, the higher volume we needed would cost a lot to boil off.

For the first time ever, I can see why striving for 100% efficiency may have even bigger problems than I originally thought.

I'm thinking that I also may have missed something quite obvious here. For the moment though I find the above intriguing - something I have never thought of before.

Am I missing something?

[Edit: Well it was intrigueing last night anyway - lol]

 

[Kingy]

Which could effectively lead to BIAB splinter groups.

Time to take sides... Are you in fact a jiggler or a dangler? h34r:

Warren -

h34r: