A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[Zizzle]

Wobbly, who has tried BIAB 12 times has decided that is not for him/her and is going back the to traditional methods, flawed as they may be..

... and his decision is far more valid than the number of people who have tried BIAB and found it worthwhile?

I have tried it a number of times and I find it great.

Heaven forbid people have different tastes and different convenience/result trade-offs hey dr K?

For people like me & Ned the alternative is K&K... Just curious do you think BIAB produces worse beers than K&K? One or two people don't like BIAB, so all of us should give up?

The BIABic self obsession with patently flawed methods and the BIABer's monocular view of the world makes it impossible for them to step outside of their rather constricted world view and embrace some sensible, logical and heaven forbid even moderately science based truth.

Err... nice strawman interspersed with ad-hominem attacks... great argument style there... I bet you can knock that strawman down really well and convince us all.

The only problem is that it isn't grounded in truth. Where was it claimed that BIAB was everything to everyone? Where is this obsession demonstrated? Are people going into sparge threads and preaching BIAB as the only way?

The real question is why do you need feel the need to come in here on a crusade and tell people that are having success in AG brewing and making decent beers that they are doing the wrong thing?

Do you think it's working? You are convincing people?

Oh cut me down tweedle dee and of course tweedle dumb, use my straw head as fuel for the fire, that Salemic pyre that burns witches such as i who dare admit that they actually not trod the holey path !!

Hahaha! Pot calling the kettle black!

It's funny you talk about witch hunts. From my position it feels like you are out to hunt down anyone who doesn't use your holey methods... you are in the BIAB telling us we are all wrong.

For the record, I don't claim that BIAB makes better beers than other AG methods. I claim it makes better beers than K&K, is easier than sparging, and requires less up front investment in equipment. For my mind there are many other variables in my process that I need to improve before moving away from BIAB. And who knows, even then I may prefer the sweeter taste it gives if you theory is correct.

 

[hughman666]

Do you think it's working? You are convincing people?
Hahaha! Pot calling the kettle black!

It's funny you talk about witch hunts. From my position it feels like you are out to hunt down anyone who doesn't use your holey methods... you are in the BIAB telling us we are all wrong.

ahhh who cares about what dr k says, this is just some plonker how hasn't presented a beer for taste testing to any group, and is probably somebody with a personality too unpleasant too even turn up to a brewers' meeting.

people like this obviously post when they've had one too many tooheys news and are up for a fight from the safety of their armchairs.

good luck dr k and merry xmas

 

[Finite]

Dr K,

No one here is going on a crusade to push this method onto other. If it wernt for this I wouldnt be doing AG yet and thats a fact. Its just far to expensive for me to buy all the equipment in one go. Many have had great success with this method and I plan to have a go too, if only to be a stepping stone into AG. No one EVER stated that this is a set in stone and advisable route to take instead of using a mash tun.

Now the facts you talk about are in regards to the water the grain ratio when mashing which I did notice was different when I did my first one (scroll up) but thought I would stick with what most have done for the first one. As such for my second BIAB I plan to mash with a water the grain ratio of 2.5 / 1 and will document the results.

I have no problem with what your saying and let it be known that im absolutley taking all your knowledge on board I also encourage you to continute to help improve this method.

I will however say that I dont and im sure many others dont very much enjoy being patronized for trying something different. If you want to get your ideas and knowledge across it might be better recived if you wernt being condescending.

Merry Christmas :beer:

 

[ant]

Ease up all, it's frickin Christmas.

BIAB is a good transition from K&K to AG. It's not a perfect system. No-one is claiming it to be. Dr K has valid questions regarding the formation of dextrinous wort.

What *would* be nice is if Dr K (or others) have the answers wrt water:grain and beta production, or can suggest a variation to the BIAB methodology that will introduce science to the debate.

Seasons greetings, etc...

 

[Finite]

ant,

I agree mate. Im keen to improve this method untill I can afford to get all the parts for the 3 tier system.

Dr K. Would you sudgest mashing at a standard water : grain ratio and then topping up with hot water before boiling?

P.S: For those interested, my summer ale has been fermenting for about 24 hours or so now and I just took a reading, SG is now 1032 from an OG of 1042. Smells fantastic and tastes even better, I could literaly drink it now....but I wont. Already about 15X better than any other K&K ive made.

 

[PostModern]

Lads, dough in with a "traditional" liquor/grist ratio of about 2.5L/Kg then mash for an hour, then add the rest of the water. Will give the beta amylase time to work in a sensible liquor:grist ratio then the additional water will allow you to soak out a little extra sugar. Your efficiency is never going to be great with BIAB, but at least with a sane or "traditional" liquor:grist ratio, you might get some decent tasting beer.

Cheers and a Beery Xmas to you all.

PoMo.

 

[Ross]

Your efficiency is never going to be great with BIAB, but at least with a sane or "traditional" liquor:grist ratio, you might get some decent tasting beer.

PoMo.

I'm not totally convinced on the BIAB method, but will leave critisism (if any) until I've tried making one myself. I've drunk some pretty decent BIAB beers, Wildabeasts from the case swap being one of them & considering these are the guys first forays into AG they are to be commended.
Efficiency's have also proven to be pretty good so far - So comments like the above from those who haven't even bothered to trial the method themselves (apologies if you have), I find quite unnecessary.

Please keep your comments until you have something constructive to add, rather than being negative for the sake of it. This is proving an excellent way for brewers to make the transistion into AG & some may find it's their prefered option.

Cheers & Merry Christmas to all

Edit: I believe AndQld did a full volume mash on his house beer. Would be good to hear how this turned out by comparison - Andrew?

 

[hughman666]

This is proving an excellent way for brewers to make the transistion into AG & some may find it's their prefered option.

Cheers & Merry Christmas to all

too right, this is how i got into AG and i have never looked back!

 

[PostModern]

Please keep your comments until you have something constructive to add, rather than being negative for the sake of it. This is proving an excellent way for brewers to make the transistion into AG & some may find it's their prefered option.

People were commenting that they were leaving the method because the beer is too sweet. People have commented that too thin a mash = too sweet a beer. I simply offered the logic of joining those comments. If anything, I thought I was offering constructive criticism to KEEP people brewing in a bag. Perhaps, if I reread my post, I might see how it was negative.... um nope, all I see is you quoting a line out of context.

Have a great Xmas BIAB'ers!

 

[phonos]

(and I say lads because I cannot imagine a woman being so pig headedly stupid)

Hi PostModern,

you have posted some very helpful information here in helping people work out what's going in in a full volume mash and what people are compromising for the ease of using a single container, as has kurtz from time to time. However, Kurtz calling people pig headedly stupid is not particularly helpful (which is why everyone has suddenly become so defensive), and I'm wondering if an administrator (or kurtz) might consider removing this trolling post.

back on topic, I had considered having a lower ratio in the bag, then topping up for the boil. I'm trying to think of what disadvantage there might be to this method, but the only thing I can think of is that the liquor is likely to cool down quicker, making it difficult to keep a constant mash temp. After the mash, you can add the hot water simply by adding boiling water from your (coffee) kettle, which probably won't be much slower than bringing 30 litres up to the boil using your burner/immsersion element. I don't have the gear for a BIAB yet (how sad is that!) perhaps someone who has done one would be willing to say if there is any issue doing things this way?

 

[PostModern]

I guess the temp dropping is the main issue, which is at least one reason brewing is traditionally done with more than one vessel. Perhaps some malts will work better than others with large liquor:grist ratios? Maybe a BIABer would try a brew with Galaxy followed by one with Marris Otter? (Just trying to think of very different base malts here).

Moderators don't necessarily read every post in every thread. Given the amount of traffic there is on here lately, it's impossible for us to do so. If you see a post that you think needs a mod or admin attention, click the report link to bring it to our attention.

Cheers,
PoMo.

 

[Maxt]

Some weird Christmas vibes in the air hey?!

PoMo. I thought your post was helpful. At the end of the day we all want to make good beer.

Kurtz initially posted some useful info, and challenged the thinking on BIAB, which has led to other posters suggesting alternative solutions....but Dr K, were you on the silly juice when you posted last?

Other than a few over-exhuberant posts from BIAB's surrogate dad (PistolPatch), I don't recall anyone saying BIAB was better than other techiques. In fact most people have acknowledged it is a stepping stone. Whether they refine techniques and stay with BIAB or go onto using mash tuns etc is their business, but how you can claim that BIAB brewers are wilfully ignorant, is just straw headed (or are you looking for a bit of entertainment by baiting?)

 

[Chris]

Hi Guys,

This is just an innocent question because I am interested.
When I started AG I usually got about 50 to 65% efficiency, what efficiency are you guys getting with BIAB? Im just asking because even if you get say 40 or 50% thats pretty good considering the reduced ammount of equipment.

Cheers

 

[Maxt]

My first BIAb gave me 60%. My last Two I got 80% and 78%. (This is efficiency into kettle from Beersmith).

 

[Chris]

Cheers Maxt
That sounds pretty good. I dont have beersmith, but promash. so to check were on the same page you get about 25lt at og~1.045 from ~4.5 kg of grain? very roughly.
When you pull the sack out do you just let it drain out?

 

[The King of Spain]

Maybe a BIABer would try a brew with Galaxy followed by one with Marris Otter?

Did my first BIAB with Galaxy. Its not sweet but does have a hint of butterscotch. I'm not sure if this was my sanitisation or a result of pitching Nottingham at 24C and dropping it to 17C in the fridge for fermentation.

Anyone got a suggestion? My even be the wheat? At any rate its still yummy

Should I consider a diacetyl rest for this type of yeast?

 

[Kai]

That sounds like a fermentation issue, not a problem with brewing method. I'm going to assume that by 'too sweet' people are referring to poor attenuation?

 

[The King of Spain]

I'm bottling a second batch of the same grain bill as we speak. Has exact same taste (which I think is good and won't be the last). Perhaps its the 500g of wheat used?

OG 1.044
FG 1.008
Yeast Nottingham

 

[Maxt]

Cheers Maxt
That sounds pretty good. I dont have beersmith, but promash. so to check were on the same page you get about 25lt at og~1.045 from ~4.5 kg of grain? very roughly.
When you pull the sack out do you just let it drain out?

6.2kg grain 30L at 1052.

I pull the bag out, and hang it over a chair into a spare fermenter. I get a litre or two out, but I don't squeeze it.

As for sweetness, I have only made APA's and oat porters. The Porter is a bit sweet, but not unpleasant.

The only thing to do is to make two identical beers, using the same gear, except BIAB one, and esky mash (then use the same kettle) for the other. Compare.

Next beer I will try a less water to grain ratio and see how this goes. The only hassle is having to have another source of water heated to sparge temp. Sort of defeats the 'less is more' BIAB idea.

 

[PostModern]

I'm going to assume that by 'too sweet' people are referring to poor attenuation?

From the theory that Dr K is preaching, the worts should be dextrinous. ie in thin mashes the alpha amylase will perform at a normal rate, but beta amylase will be retarded, thus leaving longer sugar chains that the yeast can't ferment, thus leaving sweeter, underattenuated beers. From what people are posting, this doesn't seem to be actually happening.